Starfleet and Ground Warfare

[Srelex]

Here's a question that occured to me:

Is there really any reason in the series (evidence aside) that defending a planet on the ground (EG like an army) was ever part of Starfleet's original purposes, or even a major role?

There's the MACOs from Enterprise. Though that's admittedly pre-UFP.

[Captain Seafort]

There's the MACOs from Enterprise. Though that's admittedly pre-UFP.

There's also the presence of mortars in the armoury of a pretty minor colony in Arena and the BFG the E-nil was carrying in The Cage.

[Connor MacLeod]

What I mean is, is the role of defending the planet the responsibility solely of Starfleet, or do the member worlds have their own defense forces (space, ground or both?) It's not an 'either/or' prospect, and if Starfleet is primarily responsible for peacekeeping and space based defense (or protection of shipping lanes, the individual member worlds can be responsbile for their own 'basic' defenses (and thus Starfleet doesn't need to go to the effort and expense of maintaining a standing army.) It's not like we've ever seen anything in Star Trek that actually requires it, and alot of what Sea Skimmer said applies thre as well.

Don't forget that culturally (or thematically if you prefer), the Federation has been trying to move AWAY from what they see as the barbaric part of humanity's past (which includes the warfare) If there is overriding reason forcing them to have it, and if there is a great deal of cultural inertia against it... you get the point.

[Jub]

What I mean is, is the role of defending the planet the responsibility solely of Starfleet, or do the member worlds have their own defense forces (space, ground or both?) It's not an 'either/or' prospect, and if Starfleet is primarily responsible for peacekeeping and space based defense (or protection of shipping lanes, the individual member worlds can be responsbile for their own 'basic' defenses (and thus Starfleet doesn't need to go to the effort and expense of maintaining a standing army.) It's not like we've ever seen anything in Star Trek that actually requires it, and alot of what Sea Skimmer said applies thre as well.

Don't forget that culturally (or thematically if you prefer), the Federation has been trying to move AWAY from what they see as the barbaric part of humanity's past (which includes the warfare) If there is overriding reason forcing them to have it, and if there is a great deal of cultural inertia against it... you get the point.

Do we ever see any evidence of PDF's in the series? IIRC we usually just see people hunkered down waiting for a starship to arrive.

[Connor MacLeod]

Uh, thats why I asked my original question. I don't remember any evidence for or against it, so its really hard to argue it one way or another, isn't it?

But if it offers a valid explanation for the way warfare works in Trek, I don't see why it would be a problem, either. The point it so make sense of the universe, not mock it in a 'hur hur stupid' manner.

[Jub]

I'm asking too because I honestly don't know either. I can't recall any instances that spring to mind, and you'd think, with all the Wars vs. Trek stuff, that if there were PDF's that would have been brought up by now. Either way, as much justification as it might have, not having any ground forces seems like a bad idea.

Militaries have other uses that just shooting at people and many of the same traits and learned behaviors make them just as good at helping in a disaster as they are in a war zone. Not to mention that without an army, or a PDF, or what have you, the next ship along could zap your outposts comm array, take what they want, and leave you there with no way to summon help. So you're going to want some ground to space based weapons and people to operate them, these people will usually be a military unit.

Now we know Trek forgoes this as they hold peace very highly as an ideal. This lack of readiness is why starships seem to run around putting out brush fires as often as they're exploring and making first contacts. It makes sense in universe as an issue caused by they way the UFP does things, that doesn't make it less dumb though.

[Ted C]

...and the BFG the E-nil was carrying in "The Cage".

I always thought that was one of the ship's phaser emitters transported down the the planet and supplied with broadcast power.

That entry may have stood up against hand lasers, but we can transmit the ship's power against it, enough to blast half a continent.
Look. Brains three times the size of ours. If we start buzzing about down there, we're liable to find their mental power is so great, they could reach out and swat this ship as though it were a fly.
It's Captain Pike they've got. He needs help. And he probably needs it fast.
Engineering deck will rig to transmit ship's power. We'll try blasting through that metal.

[Ted C]

Uh, thats why I asked my original question. I don't remember any evidence for or against it, so its really hard to argue it one way or another, isn't it?

But if it offers a valid explanation for the way warfare works in Trek, I don't see why it would be a problem, either. The point it so make sense of the universe, not mock it in a 'hur hur stupid' manner.

Isn't it in DS9 "Homefront" that Admiral Leyton (?) deploys Starfleet troops all over Earth to secure it against a Dominion threat? Would that be necessary if Earth had troops for planetary defense? Or, if he didn't trust them, why would they casually accept Starfleet usurping their role?

[Captain Seafort]

...and the BFG the E-nil was carrying in "The Cage".

I always thought that was one of the ship's phaser emitters transported down the the planet and supplied with broadcast power.

Direct transfer from the ship was its power source (at least in The Cage), but the weapon itself is clearly designed as a ground-based piece, rather than something jury-rigged into the role, complete with a big solid pointing, and sights. We saw in Balance of Terror that the ship's weapons are controlled from a central phaser room rather than locally.

[Lord MJ]

About PDF's. We've never seen combat or warfare on one of the Federation's member worlds, which would have populations to hundreds of millions to billions. Canon doesn't state one way or another if individual member worlds maintain PDFs.

One would presume that the worlds either have their own militaries, or Starfleet PDFs stationed. And the more advanced and developed worlds having orbital and ground to orbit defenses.

One thing is that it appears that the newer Federation worlds are at a lower level of technology relative to the Federation at the time of joining.

[Ted C]

Direct transfer from the ship was its power source (at least in The Cage), but the weapon itself is clearly designed as a ground-based piece, rather than something jury-rigged into the role, complete with a big solid pointing, and sights. We saw in Balance of Terror that the ship's weapons are controlled from a central phaser room rather than locally.

You think that this thing...



... looks like it was "clearly designed as a ground-based piece"?

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on that. It looks like a starship phaser that's been quickly rigged to a surface mount. In fact, it doesn't look all that different from an Enterprise phase cannon.



It looks like it would be very hard to move, as it appears to be poorly balanced, and there's no sign of wheels. The aiming device is positioned such that the emitter blocks its view. It looks to me like it was put together in place in a hurry.