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Captain Seafort wrote:

Kreller1 wrote:Perhaps some other minor character or something, such as Tarkin.

I wouldn't call the main villain of the original film a minor character. Besides, there isn't an actor alive with the professional stature to fill his boots (or pink fluffy slippers as the case may be).

Tarkin the main villain? I beg to differ. Vader was force-choking people (one of his allies), crushing throats (rebels), violently interrogating prisoners (rebels, Leia), and tossing fresh carcasses across rooms. Oh, and he also whacked Obi-wan before hopping in his fighter and blowing up a whole pile of rebels. Tarkin said a few harsh words, mostly directed at Leia and bossed Vader around a bit along with a few of his other subordinates. Oh, and he ordered a planet destroyed which didn't make any other Imperial even blink. Tarkin, bad guy? Yes. Main villain in Episode IV? Not so much.
I agree with you on an actor filling his shoes, however. Not happening.

How on Earth did this thread stretch two pages long? There is just no reasonable way that Disney will bring Vader back to life. And if it did do so, then we are talking comic-book level of silliness here. Disney's leadership would be completely mad just to consider the possibility of it...it just sounds so bad that it makes me want to vomit. I'll give Disney's execs the benefit of the doubt that they want to make the best film possible.

Eleventh Century Remnant wrote:Right, first you call me stupid, then I realise I'm talking to somebody who actually has faith in Disney's editorial direction, in the field of SF. Yah. Riiight...

I don't. Not that you seem able to understand the concept of a difference of opinion. Where and how Lucas dropped the ball; you have to ask? The missing third trilogy for a start. That it took two movies worth of runup to get a halfway decent prequel. Ahsoka. Jar- Jar. The live action TV series that the great flannelled one couldn't get off the ground. Continuity rewrites like TFU. Editorial control over the EU, and the faults thereof.

Recall my initial reaction to the buyout news was that it could be good, they couldn't screw it up worse than it already was; if this is the direction Disney want to go in, or are testing the waters to see if it's safe to go in, then it turns out that they can. If this is just a wild rumour, great- or if they ditch the plan, still good. This is Hollywood's lowest common denominator here though, so I reckon a certain amount of pessimism and skepticism is only healthy.

It's also hard to make piles of cash when you've just sold off the thing that was making money in the first place, so; not now.

OK, so you are an idiot.
I'm not talking about your opinion on creativity you fucking moron, I'm talking about the success of Lucasfilm as a whole and how there is ZERO reason for the so called "Disney board and shareholders", which I have already shown don't stick their noses in shit that works, to fuck around with anything Lucasfilm does, because they are wildly successful.
Do you understand the difference between "Lucas dropped the ball and made movies I don't like and think suck" and "Lucasfim is a highly successful company that makes successful products"? Apparently fucking not.

Disney didn't just buy the movie production company that makes Star Wars and Indiana Jones. They bought Skywalker Sound, LucasArts, ILM, Lucas Licensing, Lucasfilm Animation, Lucas Online and Lucas Marketing, so again dumb fuck, PLEASE show where Lucasfilm is not making piles of cash.

Kreller1 wrote:Tarkin the main villain? I beg to differ. Vader was force-choking people (one of his allies), crushing throats (rebels), violently interrogating prisoners (rebels, Leia), and tossing fresh carcasses across rooms.

And deferring to Tarkin in everything. He backed off strangling the gobby idiot when Tarkin told him to, he reported the results (or lack thereof) of Leia's interrogation to Tarkin and Tarkin issued all the key orders. Vader is certainly the main physical threat, but it's clear that Tarkin is the one calling the shots.

Explaining anything to you is going to be hard work; to start with, it'd involve taking your fingers out of your ears and actually listening to something other than the sound of your own screaming about how everything is going to be all right. Stop reacting like a disney character for once.

Creative success- and creative integrity- is what this is about, and I'm not surprised you don't realise that; I am surprised you know what it means although that may be an overestimate. Lucas sold out partly though ill health, partly through creative burnout and there was probably a feedback loop in there between the two.

Look up the interview he gave when Red Tails came out. "Why would I bother making any more movies, when everyone sneers at them and tells me what a terrible person I am?" He's not going to have a firm grip on the Disney- produced movies; the prequels made money but were widely condemned as bad art, whch makes it look that screwing the existing fans is actually a viable economic choice.

Ditching the EU continuity only reinforces this; pandering to the existing fanbase is a bad move, because it's going to be impossible to please all the people who have bought into the mythology and feel invested in it, and feel they have a right to tell the director he's murdering their childhoods. To do what they want with the franchise, the involved fans- like most of the population of the board if you haven't looked up lately- are a problem, not an asset.

The prequels ripped up a lot of the then existing EU anyway. Not like it hasn't been done before. Given Disney's approach to intellectual property- and that the EU and the dedicated fans are basically squatters on that intellecual property- I could easily see it happening again.

The EU is at least licensed; I think Disney does recognize the validity of doing that at a bare minimum.

As to the rest- well. Scrapping the EU and starting over might not be a bad idea per se. Sure, it would be best to rely on the EU as a source of extra material and cherrypick which bits you use (Thrawn good, XYZ bad, something like that). But no one was ever going to do that because it's too hard, and one person's idea of which EU is good won't match another. Were the X-Wing novels good? Yes? No? Beats me.

That's a whole separate issue from artistic integrity. The most 'integral' decision might be to scrap everything but the movies and start over, after all. That reduces the amount of stuff you need to incorporate into a consistent artistic whole, which is good.

Now, stupid ideas being floated- that could mean anything. Random rumors, whole-internet-as-focus-group, serious Disney intent to do the stupidest possible thing. Who knows?

The prequels ripped up a lot of the then existing EU anyway. Not like it hasn't been done before.

No it didn't

Lucas didn't even allow the EU to touch it aside from some dialogue nothing extreme was changed

Captain Seafort wrote:

Kreller1 wrote:Tarkin the main villain? I beg to differ. Vader was force-choking people (one of his allies), crushing throats (rebels), violently interrogating prisoners (rebels, Leia), and tossing fresh carcasses across rooms.

And deferring to Tarkin in everything. He backed off strangling the gobby idiot when Tarkin told him to, he reported the results (or lack thereof) of Leia's interrogation to Tarkin and Tarkin issued all the key orders. Vader is certainly the main physical threat, but it's clear that Tarkin is the one calling the shots.

Not really. He is respecting his command while on the Death Star and the status having THAT command and being a Moff brings. It is clearly a joint effort in the movie.

On the Tantive he is doing his own thing as he also does when he takes TIEs out. It was also his doing that led the DS to Yavin by allowing the MF to escape.

I think it is just more of what each one is good at. Tarkin is a big picture strategy guy and Vader is a small scale tactical guy. The best example of this is when Vader is like" Dude I tortured her and nothing." and Tarkin is like, "Let's blow up her whole planet.". They just think differently about situations.

There is also the caveat that Tarkin is just a guy. He is clearly worried about failing in his duties and having to answer to Palpatine while Vader is clearly not.

see when I heard this I assumed either flashback, vision or like in the cave on Degobah. But then I thought wasn't one of Lucas's early stories for EP7 involve Luke falling to the dark side?

Couldn't Luke become vader? Then he is the main villian for the next 3 movies and the new group of heroes has to defeat him. Sort of like the fate of all Skywalkers is to fall to the darkside or something. I would be ok with that if its done well.

But yeah I would ignore rumours this early. Espically since this is the only source for it.

Havok wrote:

Captain Seafort wrote:

Kreller1 wrote:Tarkin the main villain? I beg to differ. Vader was force-choking people (one of his allies), crushing throats (rebels), violently interrogating prisoners (rebels, Leia), and tossing fresh carcasses across rooms.

And deferring to Tarkin in everything. He backed off strangling the gobby idiot when Tarkin told him to, he reported the results (or lack thereof) of Leia's interrogation to Tarkin and Tarkin issued all the key orders. Vader is certainly the main physical threat, but it's clear that Tarkin is the one calling the shots.

Not really. He is respecting his command while on the Death Star and the status having THAT command and being a Moff brings. It is clearly a joint effort in the movie.

When you think of Ep IV as a WW2 movie, and the Imps as Nazis, everything becomes clear as day. Tarkin is the villainous Wehrmacht commander in charge of the secret weapon project. Vader is the villainous Gestapo big-shot assigned to running security for the whole thing and keeping an eye on everyone's loyalties to the Führer. They're equals, more or less - Tarkin has overall command of the whole thing, while Vader can overrule him on certain issues - but with different areas of authority and focus.

This does sound like a bad enough idea to be possible. That doesn't mean it's true.

Disney is like McDonald's -- they know how to cater to the lowest common denominator. It sells. People will be happy. People go to McDonald's, no gun to their heads. People go to the theme parks, watch the movies, buy the merch, are quite happy.

I've progressed to the point of viewing what's happening here with morbid amusement. If they do a good job, I will be surprised and enjoy the movie. If they fail, I'll live.

Star Wars is such a big franchise and has enough at stake, I would not try to predict how it will go. I don't think it will be handled just like any other property, it'll get special attention. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing...

zman wrote:see when I heard this I assumed either flashback, vision or like in the cave on Degobah. But then I thought wasn't one of Lucas's early stories for EP7 involve Luke falling to the dark side?

Couldn't Luke become vader? Then he is the main villian for the next 3 movies and the new group of heroes has to defeat him. Sort of like the fate of all Skywalkers is to fall to the darkside or something. I would be ok with that if its done well.

But yeah I would ignore rumours this early. Espically since this is the only source for it.

You mean Shadows of the Empire?

PainRack wrote:

zman wrote:see when I heard this I assumed either flashback, vision or like in the cave on Degobah. But then I thought wasn't one of Lucas's early stories for EP7 involve Luke falling to the dark side?

Couldn't Luke become vader? Then he is the main villian for the next 3 movies and the new group of heroes has to defeat him. Sort of like the fate of all Skywalkers is to fall to the darkside or something. I would be ok with that if its done well.

But yeah I would ignore rumours this early. Espically since this is the only source for it.

You mean Shadows of the Empire?

Don't you mean "Dark Empire?"

Shadows of the Empire was the gap-bridging book between ESB and ROTJ that had Alien sex pheromones and a transparent Han Solo expy.

Well if they do resurrect Vader, then I officially will not watch it. Vader's long dead. It's time to move on, kiddies.

I can sort of see the rationale behind resurrecting Vader as the movies are in large part the story of Anakin/Vader's fall and redemption, but that same rationale makes resurrecting him a bad idea: what exactly do they do with a cloned Vader plotwise? Regardless, I'd take anything in the tabloids with a grain of salt.

As for the EU? From what I've heard Disney actually plans to put the movie in the era of the Legacy comics and do their best not to fuck up the canon. Which is more than you can say for the Clone Wars TV writers. Sure, not all the EU is good: personally I dislike post-Dark Nest because it makes Luke look like an idiot for not paying closer attention to his family, but I do care about consistency.

I think that a lot of the EU is such bull shit it would be good if Disney changed it. Part of the reason I like The Clone Wars is that it wreaked havok on the work of Karen Travis. I want them to be consistent with the films, however.

At first I thought no way. More I think about it... it just may be possible.

1. Vader isn't coming back from the dead. It will be a clone of Vader.
2. Vader has such name recognition and will drive people to see how the writers plan on bringing him back. It would draw in throngs of people. (me included I will admit)
3. Cloning of jedi has a precedent. Force unleashed...


Nothing is certain but this seems at the least to be a possible outcome.

They could bring back anakin's force ghost in a bigger way. I can see that working.

The only way I'd accept him appearing is as a ghost, and even that would be dubious, since it would involve bringing back the much-reviled Hayden Christensen and I suspect they don't want to be associated with the Prequels.

Jm81 wrote:At first I thought no way. More I think about it... it just may be possible.

1. Vader isn't coming back from the dead. It will be a clone of Vader.
2. Vader has such name recognition and will drive people to see how the writers plan on bringing him back. It would draw in throngs of people. (me included I will admit)
3. Cloning of jedi has a precedent. Force unleashed...


Nothing is certain but this seems at the least to be a possible outcome.

A cloned Vader wouldn't be dunked in lava and would have no need for the suit, though. It either wouldn't have the desired effect or it would make no sense at all.

Maybe they'd wear the suit to intimidate people?

StarSword wrote:I can sort of see the rationale behind resurrecting Vader as the movies are in large part the story of Anakin/Vader's fall and redemption, but that same rationale makes resurrecting him a bad idea: what exactly do they do with a cloned Vader plotwise? Regardless, I'd take anything in the tabloids with a grain of salt.

As for the EU? From what I've heard Disney actually plans to put the movie in the era of the Legacy comics and do their best not to fuck up the canon. Which is more than you can say for the Clone Wars TV writers. Sure, not all the EU is good: personally I dislike post-Dark Nest because it makes Luke look like an idiot for not paying closer attention to his family, but I do care about consistency.

where did you hear that?

If you have heard that they are not going to try to fuck up the canon you are the only one. They have said nothing of the sort. The only thing I have heard which is still a rumor is that they plan on doing an original story not based on anything in the current post rotj universe.

If they have it during the lotf era there is no way they could do that with out messing up the canon.

If anything the fact that the Clone Wars doesn't care about the EU shows that I doubt they will bother caring about it for the new movies.

DrMckay wrote:

PainRack wrote:

zman wrote:see when I heard this I assumed either flashback, vision or like in the cave on Degobah. But then I thought wasn't one of Lucas's early stories for EP7 involve Luke falling to the dark side?

Couldn't Luke become vader? Then he is the main villian for the next 3 movies and the new group of heroes has to defeat him. Sort of like the fate of all Skywalkers is to fall to the darkside or something. I would be ok with that if its done well.

But yeah I would ignore rumours this early. Espically since this is the only source for it.

You mean Shadows of the Empire?

Don't you mean "Dark Empire?"

Shadows of the Empire was the gap-bridging book between ESB and ROTJ that had Alien sex pheromones and a transparent Han Solo expy.

I meant Shadows of the Empire. That is exactly what I mean we will get EP7 and then 2 or 3 movies in between that are smaller focusing on the other charachters like they did with the Marvel movies ie Avengers is the big Epidsode movies and then you have Ironman, Thor and so on in between the big Avengers movies.

jwl wrote:They could bring back anakin's force ghost in a bigger way. I can see that working.

It would tie in the two trilogies a lot to see Hayden Christensen communicating with Carrie Fisher and with Mark Hammill.

Or they just stick some *other* darkside force user in a Vader suit, to give the illusion that the old empire isn't completely gone, and to rally the Imperial remnants, all the while it's just a masquerade by someone behind the scenes whose just making a power grab...