Indian consular official arrested - India goes apeshit

[Gaidin]

Do those have jurisdiction outside diplomatic premises and their own holding facilities?

They apparently specifically investigate crimes involving visa and passport fraud as far as this case is concerned.

[Thanas]

That only answers half. Also does not excuse the marshals for being idiots.

[Gaidin]

That only answers half. Also does not excuse the marshals for being idiots.

You asked if they had jurisdiction. They blatantly did as the evidence apparently stands. I couldn't care less about the Marshalls. If State really cared they shouldn't have handed them off to the Marshalls. The Department of State seemed content not to pass down special instructions given who they were dealing with, and so they went with general procedure for handling of prisoners and what happens when they go to jail. Oh well. They can take the diplomatic hits now. That's all that really needs to be said.

[TheFeniX]

You can't just go blindly following procedure in a case like this. If you do, you are colossally stupid beyond belief.

I'm pretty sure falsifying visa documents is a felony. That said, procedures are followed because if you ignore them and the person does something stupid like trying to kill themselves, you open yourself up to ligation and even prosecution. Ignoring procedure because the person is wealthy or a diplomat isn't a better solution.

If she had immunity from said charges, that's one thing. If not, don't get caught committing felonies and you don't have to take your clothes off in front of strangers.

No matter how docile a person might be, being thrown in a jail cell can make you do stupid shit, especially for a first-timer from the upper class. It's why they take your belt and shoelaces when they toss you in the drunk tank, even if you only committed a misdemeanor such as public intoxication: so it's harder to freak out and kill yourself when you sober up and think your life is ruined.

[Thanas]

There is a whole world of difference from having your shoelaces taken away from you and being cavity searched.

If a third world country would do this to a US citizen there would be outrage.

[Gaidin]

There is a whole world of difference from having your shoelaces taken away from you and being cavity searched.

If a third world country would do this to a US citizen there would be outrage.

Then I guess the Department of State should pass down special orders and take responsibility for anything that happens as a result next time if they don't want agents following general procedure then.

[Borgholio]

What's a false analogy is comparing an unpaid fine to a crime that can carry ten years.

See that's what I mean, we don't know the circumstances. Since lying on an entry visa is a felony, do felonies warrant more invasive search procedures than traffic warrants? That actually makes a bit of sense but we need to know the context here.

[Gaidin]

See that's what I mean, we don't know the circumstances. Since lying on an entry visa is a felony, do felonies warrant more invasive search procedures than traffic warrants? That actually makes a bit of sense but we need to know the context here.

The search is a product of her being taken to the facility, not a product of the felony. You could be arrested for your traffic warrant and brought to such a facility and you'd have to go through the same thing.

It's been pointed out that without special instructions from someone higher up in the food chain and the signature of a person taking responsibility of consequences, they're going to follow set procedure. And set procedure for this arrest was that facility. And that facility means that search so nothing from the outside is brought in. It's pretty simple.

[Highlord Laan]

The Indian government has described the diplomat's treatment by the U.S. justice system as barbaric.

India being a very good authority on the barbaric treatment of women. It's been a while since I've heard a protest ring so hollow.

[Thanas]

There is a whole world of difference from having your shoelaces taken away from you and being cavity searched.

If a third world country would do this to a US citizen there would be outrage.

Then I guess the Department of State should pass down special orders and take responsibility for anything that happens as a result next time if they don't want agents following general procedure then.

They should. And the Marshals should ask. In either case the USA deserves to get heat over this.

The Indian government has described the diplomat's treatment by the U.S. justice system as barbaric.

India being a very good authority on the barbaric treatment of women. It's been a while since I've heard a protest ring so hollow.

Doesn't make it any less justified.

[Gaidin]

They should. And the Marshals should ask. In either case the USA deserves to get heat over this.

Let me be clear, as if you follow the pattern of my posts it appears I'm taking a side. In spite of what you've read in my posts, I'm pretty much right in the middle on this one. I've got no problems with her eating the consequences of the actions she's not immune to. I've got no problems with the procedures when you bring someone into a jail or a prison. And I would have no problem if someone had passed down special instructions for handling her as she's a diplomat. But either State felt she should eat those consequences, or nobody wanted to shoulder that should consequences have become necessary because something went wrong. But let's be clear, the USA is taking heat over this, and I've got absolutely no problem with that either.

[Mr Bean]

There is a whole world of difference from having your shoelaces taken away from you and being cavity searched.

If a third world country would do this to a US citizen there would be outrage.

Then I guess the Department of State should pass down special orders and take responsibility for anything that happens as a result next time if they don't want agents following general procedure then.

They should. And the Marshals should ask. In either case the USA deserves to get heat over this.

Gotta agree with Thanas, the Marshals acted foolisly in this.
Lets keep in mind what she was accused with, submitting false documentation.

That's not a violent act, nor it is a hot pursuit act. The correct procedure should have been going to her workplace contacting her superiors in the embassy bringing this to their attention and informing them charges were going to be brought. At that point if India whisks her back to her home country... oh well that's fine it looks bad on India but this is not something you need to toss someone in jail for like she just held up a bank.

[Grumman]

There is a whole world of difference from having your shoelaces taken away from you and being cavity searched.

If a third world country would do this to a US citizen there would be outrage.

Then I guess the Department of State should pass down special orders and take responsibility for anything that happens as a result next time if they don't want agents following general procedure then.

Or perhaps it should not be general procedure. The government should have to fight, hard, if it wants to perform a cavity search on someone, because it's pretty much rape. It should not be performing cavity searches unless they have a damn good reason for it.

[Mr Bean]

I had to go back and re-read the case to double check I'm not the crazy one.
So foreign diplomat is suspected of being guilty of document fraud.
Prosecutors go to a judge to issue the warrant for her arrest. Knowing she is a foreign national on a diplomatic visa they first determine the immunity does not apply and then....
Go directly to her daughter school and arrest her...

Okay it's very obvious several steps were skipped here. The Indians have ever right to be thoroughly pissed about this even before you bring in the cavity search and the like.

[Enigma]

Just a minor nitpick to Gaidin. Marshals not Marshalls. One is the nation's oldest federal law enforcement agency and the other is a clothing retailer. I'm sure the State Department gave her to the Marshals and not out to buy her a new outfit and matching shoes.

As for the handling of the diplomat, I'd have placed her in a secure room away from other inmates. If the State Dept. had some brains they'd have treated her differently. Sure she'd give up her clothes in exchange for prison outfit. Hell, instead of cavity search, don't they have X-ray machines? I don't know, but I do know that treating a foreign diplomat as any other criminal will inevitable bring down heat especially against the U.S.

[Grumman]

So foreign diplomat is suspected of being guilty of document fraud.

She is not a diplomat. She has a lesser form of immunity which does not apply to felonies outside of her official duties. As explained here.

[Broomstick]

Sadly underpaying house workers seems to be par the course for some countries.

I do not get the strip search though. What, did they think she shoves weapons in her undies when dropping of her daughter?

It's fairly standard in a lot of the US. Doesn't matter your socioeconomic level, if you're being housed in a general prison population you're treated just like everyone else... which means if they get strip searched so do you.

I'm not particularly thrilled with the notion, either, but there's something to be said for equal treatment regardless of social status.

[Broomstick]

There is a whole world of difference from having your shoelaces taken away from you and being cavity searched.

If a third world country would do this to a US citizen there would be outrage.

Given how much probing the US public seems willing to tolerate just to get on an airplane these days I'm not so sure there would be any outrage.

[Broomstick]

That's not a violent act, nor it is a hot pursuit act. The correct procedure should have been going to her workplace contacting her superiors in the embassy bringing this to their attention and informing them charges were going to be brought. At that point if India whisks her back to her home country... oh well that's fine it looks bad on India but this is not something you need to toss someone in jail for like she just held up a bank.

Part of what's wrong here is that she apparently violated US employment law by not paying her domestic help even minimum wage... and failure to pay employees is legally theft in the US. So yeah, not quite robbing a bank but definitely some of what she did would fall under "theft" in the US if she's guilty as charged.

[Thanas]

And still not a violent act and still not justifying a cavity search.

[Gaidin]

That's ok, since that came from the OP and not the article in the OP. The OP can say cavity search all he wants, but there's a difference between a textbook prison-entrance strip search and a cavity search I would think.

[Thanas]

She however claims she was cavity searched. Even if she was not and she was indeed wage-slaving her nanny (which I am willing to believe) this was handled without tact or intelligence.

[Kitsune]

The trouble I see is that this is an oops at certain levels. . .People following their orders in large part without proper handling
Is the response on the other side warranted though
Removing security barriers, taking US papers, threatening to arrest American diplomatic staff in same sex relationships, etc
If somebody use a truck bomb on the embassy during this time, this will be really bad diplomatically on India's side

[Borgholio]

That's ok, since that came from the OP and not the article in the OP. The OP can say cavity search all he wants, but there's a difference between a textbook prison-entrance strip search and a cavity search I would think.

I quoted CNN because at the time of my posting, they had a much more thorough article than USA Today, which mentioned the cavity search. My apologies for not posting that link as well. Here you go:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... y/4108553/

[Gaidin]

Thanks guys, didn't know. Thought it was just a strip search.