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I never read that one, what was said?

FaxModem1 wrote:I never read that one, what was said?

Thrawn suggested that instead of putting a stormtrooper garrison on Endor to protect the shield generator, the Imperials should just raze the forest around the generator and put in some mechanized repulsorlift troops.

Palpatine essentially says "So what?" and then the two talk about setting traps, and mention the "natives" as completely xenophobic (Palpatine)/maybe potential danger (Thrawn).

I'm recalling best as I can from memory, because my copy of Choices of One is on the other side of the country now.

Why the fuck would Palpatine even be discussing something that mundane?

I mean sure you can make the argument that the last Death Star was destroyed, but that had nothing to do with security unless you are talking about the security of the plans. Also the ONLY reason the rebels knew the DSII was even there was because Palpatine LET THEM KNOW. Planet side security was a non fucking issue.

Palpatine to whatever trusted adviser/military aide: Set up security for the new secret project.
Trusted adviser/military aide: Yes Emperor.
End of conversation. If it was even more than: "Build me a new Death Star." "Yes sir."

Well, considering the whole construction of the Death Star was meant as a trap to wipe out the Rebellion made by Palpatine, I think he would have had a hand in the security of the whole operation.

No it fucking wasn't. The DS was being built regardless. The trap was the leaking of the location and having himself present, but if you actually think that, then security was still not an issue as he wouldn't want the rebels to get wind of the trap too early and hightail it out. In fact shitty ground side security would almost be a must if the ENTIRE operation was a trap. Either way, he doesn't need to fucking worry about it.

Considering he read the original report and ordered Endor be properly scouted and a new report made, it seems Palpatine was getting himself involved heavily in the second Death Star's construction site, but not enough to care about force users on the moon.

OK look at it like this (not withstanding authors making Palpatine a micromanager) he told Luke and entire legion of his best troops awaits them. Now legion is an ancient term for us, but I think it meant, and Thanas will either yell and me or pat me on the butt, 5500 soldiers. OK, I didn't see 5500 Stormtroopers and officers.
IF he meant battalion it's around 1000, which based on screen evidence seems plausible. If he meant the equivalent of legion which is approximately a brigade, again, no evidence.
If he meant the in-universe legion that was given numbers after the movies were released, then we are talking like almost 10,000 troops. Yeah right.

Based on what we see, there is no way Ewoks are beating anything more than 1000 Stormtroopers and officers.

So what does this tell us? A. Palpatine doesn't even know what to call his military groupings. B. He has no idea which are his best men. C. He actually has no fucking idea what the security setup is like.
Personally, I'm going to go with C. because it actually fit what we know and see. I think he is keeping track of the rebel fleet as a whole and Luke at this point and that is about it.

"An entire *legion* of my best troops.."
Given that Palpy is Sith, he may have simply been lying in order to manipulate/turn Luke, regardless of if he knew how many or which troops were really down there waiting on the moon.

THere's also the fact that those troops would have been spread over a wide-ish area, expecting an attack on the main entrance, not the rear. The AT-AT never turned up, the rest of the troops may not have either.

Eh, prior to the EU deciding that "Legion" was a formal military term, I always figured Palpatine's line to just be the figure of speech usage for the word legion, rather than a literal definition.

RogueIce wrote:Eh, prior to the EU deciding that "Legion" was a formal military term, I always figured Palpatine's line to just be the figure of speech usage for the word legion, rather than a literal definition.

That. Much as I like a lot of the EU, some of the authors have a tendency to overanalyze every single word.

It's a very emphasized and important line.

Kreller1 wrote:"An entire *legion* of my best troops.."
Given that Palpy is Sith, he may have simply been lying in order to manipulate/turn Luke, regardless of if he knew how many or which troops were really down there waiting on the moon.

Aside from his dual identity, and even that is a stretch, Palpatine has never lied that we know of. Sith=liar is a brain bug from I don't know where. Given that there were troops there and the good point of the secret entrance has been brought up, there is zero reason to believe Palpatine was lying.

I think it was said before that the Sith aren't simply liars. They actually tell the truth most of the time...just the select portions of the truth that will do them the most good.

Havok wrote:It's a very emphasized and important line.

Yeah, but it doesn't need to be interpreted as "I have a legion by the Roman definition, comprising x specific number of troops."* All you need to interpret it as is, "I have enough troops that your buddies are goners." Kinda like the EU decided that Han's "12 parsecs" line meant how close you could pass by the Maw (and thus put distance traveled slightly below 12 parsecs), when the stage directions in the ANH script said Han was just talking out of his ass and got the terminology wrong.

* Then again, SW military command structure is so completely fucked up that there's a point where a naval commander is said to outrank a naval captain, and the Rebels/New Republic use this weird hodgepodge of army and navy ranks. (And that's the fault of the scriptwriters for TESB and ROTJ, not the EU.)

Getting back to the topic at hand,was Charal and her band of marauders considered insignificant by Palpatine, did he just not read the report after he ordered a more exhaustive one, or did he have a reason for leaving them alone, and if so, what was it?

I'm not up on the canon about what was going down on Endor, but my guess would be one and three. Palpatine wasn't in any way threatened by some punk ass Dark Side user on Endor, BUT he still believed the Dark Side is stronger and wanted to see it triumph everywhere. Stands to reason that he would want whoever the hell to make life miserable for the Ewoks just on general principals, just like he wants to promote a culture that encourages abuse of the average person by Imperial officials even when there isn't any specific gain to doing so.

I mean, I doubt he thought about it for more than two seconds, but I figure that's what the reasoning looked like.

Havok wrote: Aside from his dual identity, and even that is a stretch, Palpatine has never lied that we know of. Sith=liar is a brain bug from I don't know where. Given that there were troops there and the good point of the secret entrance has been brought up, there is zero reason to believe Palpatine was lying.

I think the brain bug comes from when Yoda, at the end of AoTC says something to the effect that since Dooku has joined the darkside, that lies, deceit and creating mistrust are now what he does. This then obviously translates to Palpy, since he is Sith, so he therefore must be a lying, deceiving, mistrust creating bad guy.
But yeah, as far as I know you are right; we never see Palpy outright lie on screen.

Like any good politician Palpatine knows not to outright lie, but it doesn't mean everything he says is the whole truth.

lies, deceit and creating mistrust

the funny thing is you create all 3 of these without using outright lies, for example in ROTS Palpatine was able to use the fight in his office to paint the Jedi as power hungry and enemies of the Republic by leaving out the part where it explained why they were in his office to begin with. Now the lie there was that the Jedi were taking over out of lust for more power, though it's never outright stated just implied, deceit is the masking of true motives of the Jedi and mistrust well I guess you can figure that one out yourselves and all this was done without making a single statement that's objectively untrue.

Yeah, Yoda's definitely counting "lies of omission" there. It's not a brain bug: individual Sith may not actually tell falsehoods, but they're certainly no strangers to leaving out parts of the truth.

Neither are the fucking Jedi, or any other group in power for that matter.
I mean what exactly were Palpatine and Dooku in their guises as Sidious and Tyranus, lying about?

Havok wrote:Sith=liar is a brain bug from I don't know where.

It's promoted by those who want to throw out Palpatine dialogue they don't like.

Lord Revan wrote:it doesn't mean everything he says is the whole truth.

Nothing anyone says is ever the whole truth.

Arawn Fenn wrote:

Lord Revan wrote:it doesn't mean everything he says is the whole truth.

Nothing anyone says is ever the whole truth.

depends on if mean the a)"whole absolute truth" or b)"what that person thinks is the whole truth"

if you mean the option a) then yes no-one ever says the whole truth cause we're limited by our perspective and cannot know the absolute truth, however if you mean no-one ever tells option b), that's not true.

I would if told to tell the whole truth do so to the best of my abilities there might be some details I'd miss or forget but then I do not claim to be perfect, also that's not what I mean when I say Palpatine doesn't tell the whole truth and you know it.

Are we seriously having an argument about whether what for all intents and purposes is an extra sneaky member of the already sneaky by default political portion of the human race was capable and or willing to lie to further his agenda?

No, whether or not the Sith are straight up liars. Based on the movies and what we know GL thinks about when writing SW, which is nothing in the EU whatsoever, they are not.