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There is definitely an idea in Kirk's films of him being continually attached, weather by choice or by circumstances, to commanding the Enterprise. I'm not sure how true this is for Picard. Picard at least really wanted to settle down and have a family. It was just a matter of circumstances preventing it I guess.

But I suppose their careers put them in a difficult position relationship-wise. They'd be constantly on the frontier with no reliable regular access to anyone except the people on their ship, who would generally be their subordinates.

This is manifestly untrue for Han, who can fly pretty much anywhere he wants in the galaxy on short notice and has only one person under his command on the Falcon.

Galvatron wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:To me, the lack of a normal family is a relatively minor part of Kirk and Picard's characterization.

I thought it was outright stated or at least inferred on more than one occasion that both Kirk and Picard were "married" to the Enterprise. Even if they share no other character traits, I'd say Han has at least that in common with the Star Trek captains.

Thing is, there is little or no evidence in the original movies that Han is "married" to his current lifestyle. And in the EU he's done a lot of different things, so it's not like being captain of a light freighter is necessarily his dream for the rest of his life.

While he might not mature into someone who's going to be good at married life, there's no reason to assume he won't mature at all.

Indeed, his arc is going from a roguish, untrustworthy, apparently single man to a trusted general in the Rebellion who's in love with Leia. Backtracking on that would not be honouring the Original Trilogy. Indeed, it would be betraying it.

The OT needs to be honoured?

Was it dictated by God to his prophet George Lucas?

My impression of Han was that he was stuck with flying the Falcon and that a lifestyle of smuggling stuff in a bucket of bolts, constantly owing money to Jabba and generally being on the fringe drove him to become the kind of person we see in the OT. Basically it's what he was used to being, not what he was at heart.

Gandalf wrote:The OT needs to be honoured?

Was it dictated by God to his prophet George Lucas?

I would not say the OT needs to be "honored" as such, but given the ending of ROTJ it should at least be addressed if he's not with Leia for whatever reason, given both of their character arcs regarding each other throughout the trilogy - though mostly ESB and ROTJ.

Gandalf wrote:The OT needs to be honoured?

Was it dictated by God to his prophet George Lucas?

Of course not, but it is the basis of the whole franchise and it establishes both the setting and the characters and their personalities. You can have the films move beyond it, but you cannot ignore it or contradict it if you want to do a good job with the new films.

Edit: Its the nature of making a sequel. If you don't want to have to be so constrained, you have to make an original story or at least a reboot.

Kojiro wrote:Since I haven't seen it mentioned, this comic is written by Jason Aaron. If that name is familiar it's because he's also the one who wrote the female 'Thor' storyline.

Oh dear God...

The Romulan Republic wrote:

Gandalf wrote:The OT needs to be honoured?
Was it dictated by God to his prophet George Lucas?

Of course not, but it is the basis of the whole franchise and it establishes both the setting and the characters and their personalities. You can have the films move beyond it, but you cannot ignore it or contradict it if you want to do a good job with the new films.
Edit: Its the nature of making a sequel. If you don't want to have to be so constrained, you have to make an original story or at least a reboot.

Or you can go the ENT route and blithely ignore everything that came before (and mostly, after...chronologically speaking).

Balrog wrote:

Kojiro wrote:Since I haven't seen it mentioned, this comic is written by Jason Aaron. If that name is familiar it's because he's also the one who wrote the female 'Thor' storyline.

Oh dear God...

Whats wrong with the Fem-Thor storyline beyond the sex change aspect of an established character? I haven't heard any complaints about it beyond the fatty nerds whining that now instead of big pecs Thor has big tits and the "they changed it now it sucks" crowd and of course the general whining about the New 52 being a broken mess of a pointless cashgrab reboot.

Mind you haven't read it, more or less out of comics, so my only exposure to it is people on message boards.

Joun_Lord wrote:This just sounds like a poor excuse for drama.

It kind of meshes with the possible synopsis posted on another thread (could explain any estrangement between Han and Leia)

Joun_Lord wrote:Whats wrong with the Fem-Thor storyline beyond the sex change aspect of an established character?

There was no sex change to an existing character. There was a transfer of ownership of Mjolnir and the name/title of Thor to the new worthy wielder. The Odinson is still male, he's just no longer Thor or the wielder of Mjolnir (since these two seem not to be interconnected). So we never got a female Thor, we got a woman wielding Mjolnir and Thor's powers.

The worry from Balrog I suspect might be that Aaron has demonstrated that if he wants to push a character he's more than willing to make drastic changes to an well established one to do so.

Joun_Lord wrote:

Balrog wrote:

Kojiro wrote:Since I haven't seen it mentioned, this comic is written by Jason Aaron. If that name is familiar it's because he's also the one who wrote the female 'Thor' storyline.

Oh dear God...

Whats wrong with the Fem-Thor storyline beyond the sex change aspect of an established character? I haven't heard any complaints about it beyond the fatty nerds whining that now instead of big pecs Thor has big tits and the "they changed it now it sucks" crowd and of course the general whining about the New 52 being a broken mess of a pointless cashgrab reboot.

Mind you haven't read it, more or less out of comics, so my only exposure to it is people on message boards.

What's wrong with it? nothing, other than being astoundingly unnecessary: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freyja

We don't need Whor... we already have Freyja.

Kojiro wrote:

Joun_Lord wrote:Whats wrong with the Fem-Thor storyline beyond the sex change aspect of an established character?

There was no sex change to an existing character. There was a transfer of ownership of Mjolnir and the name/title of Thor to the new worthy wielder. The Odinson is still male, he's just no longer Thor or the wielder of Mjolnir (since these two seem not to be interconnected). So we never got a female Thor, we got a woman wielding Mjolnir and Thor's powers.

The worry from Balrog I suspect might be that Aaron has demonstrated that if he wants to push a character he's more than willing to make drastic changes to an well established one to do so.

I didn't mean an actual sex-change to Thor himself but a sex-change to the title of Thor, the character was femmed up but the original character is still male. Pretty confusing considering Thor is Thor's actual name and his title and his title of Thor can be transferred to other characters but he still remains Thor just Thor Odinson rather then Thor Gawd of Thunder.

So was taking away Mewmew and dude Thor's Pikachu powers to give to Queen Amidala to make her Lady Thor Aaron pushing some angle or some character?

cmdrjones wrote:What's wrong with it? nothing, other than being astoundingly unnecessary: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freyja

We don't need Whor... we already have Freyja.

But she ain't Thor and therefore can't dick ride the established character name.......I mean continue to use a character in a new light.


Also now it not being 6 in the morning I'm relatively positive New 52 is DC and not Marvel. I can't remember what the name of the Marvel reboot, which I'm relatively sure they had recently, that had Marvel fans bitching about fucking with characters much like DC fans did with New 52 (especially the rapey murderous Amazons, the Starfire as a living sex doll goldfish, killing the Kents, and turning the original Green Lantern gay seemingly with no reason then to just make him gay, don't know if any of that is true except the Starfire thing, I read that issue just to see if writers could really stoop so low and yes these motherfuckers should be playing limbo).

The Romulan Republic wrote:Indeed, his arc is going from a roguish, untrustworthy, apparently single man to a trusted general in the Rebellion who's in love with Leia. Backtracking on that would not be honouring the Original Trilogy. Indeed, it would be betraying it.

30 years is plenty of time in which a character's arc can change drastically without necessarily "betraying" it. For all we know, there may have been a Courtship of Princess Leia-type storyline in the new post-ROTJ canon that didn't have as much of a fairytale ending as the original did.

I suppose so.

I really want to know what happened immediately after the Battle of Endor according to the new canon policy.

Joun_Lord wrote:

Balrog wrote:

Kojiro wrote:Since I haven't seen it mentioned, this comic is written by Jason Aaron. If that name is familiar it's because he's also the one who wrote the female 'Thor' storyline.

Oh dear God...

Whats wrong with the Fem-Thor storyline beyond the sex change aspect of an established character?

Because parts of it read like the writer trolled through Tumblr looking for inspiration from the SJW crowd, and the "reveal" about the female Thor's identity was uninspired.

The Romulan Republic wrote:I suppose so.

I really want to know what happened immediately after the Battle of Endor according to the new canon policy.

Something like: DS2 explodes... Rebels and Ewoks party, Luke recognizes Anakins force ghost for no apparent reason.... (then a miracle happens) DS2 debris vanishes and all the concussive force is redirected to another universe, so Endor is NOT destroyed....

cmdrjones wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:I suppose so.

I really want to know what happened immediately after the Battle of Endor according to the new canon policy.

Something like: DS2 explodes... Rebels and Ewoks party, Luke recognizes Anakins force ghost for no apparent reason.... (then a miracle happens) DS2 debris vanishes and all the concussive force is redirected to another universe, so Endor is NOT destroyed....

Shouldn't the miracle happen before the party though? If not, we should have seen the forest engulfed in flames and the sky raining ejecta during the final scenes of ROTJ.

Galvatron wrote:

cmdrjones wrote:

The Romulan Republic wrote:I suppose so.

I really want to know what happened immediately after the Battle of Endor according to the new canon policy.

Something like: DS2 explodes... Rebels and Ewoks party, Luke recognizes Anakins force ghost for no apparent reason.... (then a miracle happens) DS2 debris vanishes and all the concussive force is redirected to another universe, so Endor is NOT destroyed....

Shouldn't the miracle happen before the party though? If not, we should have seen the forest engulfed in flames and the sky raining ejecta during the final scenes of ROTJ.

Meh, part of the miracle!

Oh, I'm sure Han having a wife is perfectly reasonable. Someone probably gave her to him as payment, and only after he finally gave into her constant attempts at seduction did he find out she was a con woman...

Was that an intentional reference to the Firefly episode "Our Mrs. Reynolds", or did you copy the plot perfectly by chance?

The Romulan Republic wrote:Was that an intentional reference to the Firefly episode "Our Mrs. Reynolds", or did you copy the plot perfectly by chance?

It's all in the ellipsis... plus I don't believe in coincidences.

Geezuz. The EU, new or old, will do anything to cheapen Han's journey in the OT and make him the lovable rouge instead of the criminal, murdering, smuggler he was. Do people not understand his transition in the OT? I mean, is it more complicated than I think?

It's just how people cheapen Luke's journey by having every other Jedi fall do the Dark Side and get redeemed, or cheapen Anakin's journey by resurrecting Palpatine.

I hope it ends up as some marriage of convenience or some bet he won like Knife suggested. Or at least handle it like he was a complete prick with no excuses back in the day and now, with Leia, he understands what he did and apologizes for it.

Havok wrote:Geezuz. The EU, new or old, will do anything to cheapen Han's journey in the OT and make him the lovable rouge instead of the criminal, murdering, smuggler he was. Do people not understand his transition in the OT? I mean, is it more complicated than I think?

It's just how people cheapen Luke's journey by having every other Jedi fall do the Dark Side and get redeemed, or cheapen Anakin's journey by resurrecting Palpatine.

I hope it ends up as some marriage of convenience or some bet he won like Knife suggested. Or at least handle it like he was a complete prick with no excuses back in the day and now, with Leia, he understands what he did and apologizes for it.

1. Being a criminal in the GE does not speak against the criminal in and of itself. Neither does smuggling in and of itself. Hell, even working for the Hutts does not necessarily speak ill against the person in question very much. You get into debt to fix your ship, the mortgage gets bought Jabba, suddenly you owe Jabba. You really really dont want to owe Jabba.

2. Even if Han shot first, shooting Greedo was self defense.

That said, I think Han was always the Loveable Rogue, he might have been a bit on the assholish end of that designation, but he has always been a fundamentally decent person. This is a man who gave up his career in order to rescue a few Wookiees from slavery. Who, within hours of meeting Luke, Leia and Obi Wan, basically gave up paying Jabba off and risked his life to TIE fighter/Turbolaser-death to help them blow up the death star and then joined the rebel alliance full time. He tried to be mercenary and put on a good show of it because he knew it was in his best interest... he just couldn't bring himself to do it in the end. He wanted to leave in TESB because being hunted by bounty hunters was not desirable and put not just him but the alliance at risk.

His journey was not and never was a journey from asshole to non-asshole over the course of the films. His journey was from cynical scallywag to idealistic responsible adult (I might not be getting the wording right there, but you get the point in context, I trust).

There are plenty of Estranged Wife scenarios that would be perfectly consistent with that interpretation.