What factions could Canon Star Wars beat?

[Tribble]

Do we know the Warp exists universe wide or is it a localized phenomenon? Wars DOES happen in A Galaxy Far Far Away.
And can you actually clean out the Warp by blowing it up?
As for Starkiller Base destroying Terra from 'across the galaxy'-other than 'obviously interstellar' do we actually know the range? What are the variables? Stars come in a variety of sizes. Can she kill more systems/at a longer range with, say, a blue supergiant than a red dwarf? Does it even 'work' on anything other than Sol-type stars? Can it choose to blow up fewer targets but at a longer range? We know next to nothing on the limitations of that weapon

Good points. AFAIK the Warp exists across the entire universe (presumably like hyperspace). Blowing up a shitload of stuff in it probably doesn't clean it out though. At most you might temporarily disable some daemons, maybe one of the Gods (maybe), but the others would quite happily eat your soul while the weapon recharges.

As for Starkiller Base itself, we've seen it eat up what looked like a typical main-sequence G-type star (well I'm assuming main sequence G type, since the gun was built into a habitable planet circling a yellow star). I'm actually curious if it could survive being close enough to try eating an O-type blue supergiant, since at the approx 1 AU distance Starkiller was from the star it ate (again, an assumption based on it being built in a habitable world) it's be well inside a blue supergiant and probably quite toasty.

Another possibility is that Star Killer base just parks itself in orbit of a supergiant and keeps siphoning off bits of it as needed.

If it takes approx 1 Sun sized star worth of material per shot, how many would it be able to fire off if it was able to keep siphoning material from a blue supergiant?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Do we know the Warp exists universe wide or is it a localized phenomenon? Wars DOES happen in A Galaxy Far Far Away.
And can you actually clean out the Warp by blowing it up?
As for Starkiller Base destroying Terra from 'across the galaxy'-other than 'obviously interstellar' do we actually know the range? What are the variables? Stars come in a variety of sizes. Can she kill more systems/at a longer range with, say, a blue supergiant than a red dwarf? Does it even 'work' on anything other than Sol-type stars? Can it choose to blow up fewer targets but at a longer range? We know next to nothing on the limitations of that weapon

Good points. AFAIK the Warp exists across the entire universe (presumably like hyperspace). Blowing up a shitload of stuff in it probably doesn't clean it out though. At most you might temporarily disable some daemons, maybe one of the Gods (maybe), but the others would quite happily eat your soul while the weapon recharges.

As for Starkiller Base itself, we've seen it eat up what looked like a typical main-sequence G-type star (well I'm assuming main sequence G type, since the gun was built into a habitable planet circling a yellow star). I'm actually curious if it could survive being close enough to try eating an O-type blue supergiant, since at the approx 1 AU distance Starkiller was from the star it ate (again, an assumption based on it being built in a habitable world) it's be well inside a blue supergiant and probably quite toasty.

Another possibility is that Star Killer base just parks itself in orbit of a supergiant and keeps siphoning off bits of it as needed.

If it takes approx 1 Sun sized star worth of material per shot, how many would it be able to fire off if it was able to keep siphoning material from a blue supergiant?

Depends on the blue supergiant. Biggest known is around 215 solar masses - but that's an unstable, near end-of-life star that is not safe to be around. More typical blue supergiants are 20+ solar masses IIRC.

Of course, siphoning off a solar mass worth of material from a supergiant on a regular basis is liable to cause some...unpleasant side effects, possibly up to and including inducing an early supernova, and Starkiller Base ain't gonna survive that. And the aforementioned issue of parking within siphoning range of a supergiant has it's own inherent dangers (not least the considerable relative velocity you'd need to gain to get into a stable orbit to stay there long-term).

[Solauren]

WIth Starkiller base
#1 - Did the first shot it fired, (destroying the Republic Capital) drain the star it was near, or another nearby star (via hyperspace)?
That could make it safe for Starkiller base to drain any star from a safe distance.

It's possible the First Order drained the star that Starkiller base was near during the climatic battle, because it was closer, and therefore quicker to drain.

And my thought on Starkiller base vs Warp demons and the like....

I wasn't suggesting targetting beings specifically. Just figuring out a firing pattern to flood an area of the warp with shots.
So that anything in the area gets hit with it. Part of why I said 'shotgun it'. Spray shot.

I will admit, if you could figure out where a powerful warp entity was, and aim a shot to hit it, that would be useful.

Another thought - Could can you fire a shot with Starkiller Base, and then have ships jump BEHIND it's shot in hyperspace?
Anything in the way gets cooked by the Hyperspace Shot, and the ships travelling behind the shot, don't have to worry about them.



Now, as for killing Warp beings and Chaos Gods in the Warp and it's effects.

In MOST fantasy-esque settings, killing a Demon, Daemon, Devil, or any other extraplanar or extra-dimensional being banishies it back to it's home dimension.
(There are a few that killing it is killing it, period).

However, in the setting where you kill a Extraplanar/ExtraDimensional, if you kill it in it's home dimension, you kill it, period.

Using D&D as an example....
During the Savage Tide adventure path, if you manage to you kill Demogorgon (The Prince of Demons) on his layer of the Abyss. That's it, he's dead unless the DM rules otherwise later.

Asmodeus's wife was killed in Hell, and she's stayed dead.

You kill a god in it's domain, it dies and a new marker shows up in the Astral Plane.

So, assuming the rule 'kill them at home, they're dead' applies, IF Starkiller Base's hyperspace shots were to hit and kill a native of the Warp, that should be it.

Those are, of course, BIG assumptions.

[bilateralrope]

Oh, absolutely.

PROVIDED -
#1 - Hyperspace as it exists in Star Wars interacts with the Warp.
#2 - If #1 is true, how come it's not a problem in the GFFA? Some kind of shielding tech?
#3 - The First/Final Order can just shotgun repeated blasts with Starkiller base through Hyperspace, and clear out the warp.

If #1 isn't true, then the First Order will have problems. Not with the daemons in the Warp, but when all the planet killing fuels a daemon incursion into real space.

[Bedlam]

Interesting points. Usually in Versus arguments we assume each side's tech works as it normally does, so we might theorise that hyperspace and the Warp are the same thing, only the GFFA-Warp for some reason never developed Warp-entities like daemons and Khorne et al, and that 40K-Warp travel is slower because the Chaos Gods and other nightmares have riled it up something fierce (IIRC, Warp travel pre-Chaos Gods was a lot faster than it is in the main 40K era, as the Warp was "smoother").

As far as I know this is at least partially canon. Prior to the War in Heaven the warp was supposed to be a much 'calmer' place it was the old ones weaponizing it which resulted in it becoming the much more hostile place it is in the 'present' its not entirely clear if they created the chaos gods or just empowered / destabilized them. Its not clear if the effect is localized to our Galaxy or if it's stretched out further across the universe.

As to trying to 'shoot' things in the warp given that physical rules work differently there there's no evidence that what is considered destructive energy in our universe will have any effect at all in there.

[Solauren]

It's also possible that the Warp and Hyperspace are different dimensional levels (like Subspace domains in Star Trek).

Or if you want to go with D&D terms - the Warp is the Plane of Shadow, and Hyperspace is the Astral Plane.

That would make Warp Entities a non-issue during transit.

[NecronLord]

As for Starkiller Base destroying Terra from 'across the galaxy'-other than 'obviously interstellar' do we actually know the range? What are the variables? Stars come in a variety of sizes. Can she kill more systems/at a longer range with, say, a blue supergiant than a red dwarf? Does it even 'work' on anything other than Sol-type stars? Can it choose to blow up fewer targets but at a longer range? We know next to nothing on the limitations of that weapon

We have a range, around 50,000 Ly, given the maps, I can post if needed with more precision but it's something on the order of tens of thousands of light years.

As regards the daemons, they're obviously not going to be extirpated by a weapon like this, though it should be noted that destroying say, Abbadon's black fleet has significant and sustained negative effects on their ability to make war. Many societies seem to exist without being immediately swarmed by Daemons on their homeworlds - e.g. the T'au, so they'd have the same centuries to deal with that as the T'au have enjoyed.

Chaos is a pressing issue for the Imperium of Man because of fairly intertwined historical reasons, and depending how genocidal the First/Final Order is feeling, just exterminating the (40k) human species is an answer to Chaos. There's a lengthy subplot in the Horus Heresy novels about how one 'Cabal' of aliens intended to get humanity exterminated because the Chaos Gods have become dependent on the evolving psychic race of (40k) humans as a food source, and the shock of being suddenly denied it would be a mortal wound to the gods.

The only complication really is if the Emperor actually does prevent the Chaos Gods having their way with the material universe, as at least some characters believe, which might have large scale unintended consequences.

31st century Federation would probably do the same if not quite so easily, weaponising time travel makes an awful lot of "insurmountable" threats go away.

I'm not actually sure the 31st century federation has a firepower advantage over Star Wars these days, given that the 32nd federation seems to primarily use the same power technology as the 24th century, with some incremental improvements; unless they can travel back in time a lot further than we've seen them, they might just get shot by the ancient Galactic Republic Navy if their maximum temporal range is centuries or a few millennia.

[Eternal_Freedom]

31st century Federation would probably do the same if not quite so easily, weaponising time travel makes an awful lot of "insurmountable" threats go away.

I'm not actually sure the 31st century federation has a firepower advantage over Star Wars these days, given that the 32nd federation seems to primarily use the same power technology as the 24th century, with some incremental improvements; unless they can travel back in time a lot further than we've seen them, they might just get shot by the ancient Galactic Republic Navy if their maximum temporal range is centuries or a few millennia.

I was more thinking of the 31st Century Fed's ability to grab people out of timelines with a range of at least 800-1000 years (Daniels, Archer etc). So they could go back to 32 BBY or so (around the Naboo incident), grab Palps and eliminate him. Job done - Palps is the architect/mastermind, without him the plan falls apart. Perhaps time it so it's just after he's knocked off Darth Plageuis and the Sith are done.

As for the T'au not being overrun by demons, isn't that more because they have very little presence in the Warp so don't attract any attention? And don't have any psykers to accidentally cause a demonic incursion? GIven that the First/Final Order are human, which are apparently quite delicious to the Chaos Gods, they'd have a lot more of a problem than the T'au.

[NecronLord]

I was more thinking of the 31st Century Fed's ability to grab people out of timelines with a range of at least 800-1000 years (Daniels, Archer etc). So they could go back to 32 BBY or so (around the Naboo incident), grab Palps and eliminate him. Job done - Palps is the architect/mastermind, without him the plan falls apart. Perhaps time it so it's just after he's knocked off Darth Plageuis and the Sith are done.

Fair, though they might need to go all the way back to Bane or just pick a sith lord at the right point where they don't have any successors lined up.

As for the T'au not being overrun by demons, isn't that more because they have very little presence in the Warp so don't attract any attention? And don't have any psykers to accidentally cause a demonic incursion? GIven that the First/Final Order are human, which are apparently quite delicious to the Chaos Gods, they'd have a lot more of a problem than the T'au.

Even so, there are many, many human worlds and even societies other than the Tau, with their famously low exposure to the warp, who do not immediately drown in a tide of demons, and non-imperial cultures of humans (e.g. the Adranti) who lasted tens of thousands of years even into the 41st millennium, without necessarily using the exact same techniques as the Imperium, it's not something that becomes a problem immediately and on its own as much as a societal issue, if the Emperor had never sanctioned Lorgar, humiliated him, and then allowed him to probe the small and largely harmless cults that existed without censure or oversight, the Imperium's chaos problem would be vastly reduced.

On the whole, 40k humans aren't like you or I, after tens of thousands of years of constant exposure to the warp via warp travel they're on the verge of becoming a psychic-race, they are much more exposed to the warp than their ancestors of M3, like you and I. The Emperor believes (rightly or wrongly) that he is the steward of this transformation, and the Imperium is entirely secondary to that in his mind. I would not assume that this applies to First/Final Order humans, unless they begin to interbreed with the locals.