Intelligent Designer Theory Applied to the Universe

[neoolong]

Here's a source for the sun miracle: http://www.fatima.org/miracle.html

Of course that still relies on the fact that it is based on what one guy says he saw. Even though it is impossible for it to have happened.

The account of course ignores the fact that aside from this location, nobody else anywhere recorded an account of something weird happening with the sun.

[Sir Sirius]

My friend recognizes that the miracle was physically impossible, so attacking it with scientific explanations wouldn't help.

Then he has just effectively conceded the debate and is marely raising a Wall of Ignorance when he keeps on claiming that did happen non the less.

As for the crowd of 100 000, apparently there were more than just religiously feverent Chrisitians. There were skeptics and believers alike and they all saw the same thing.

So what? Mass hallucination or an optical illusion are still more plausible explanations then the Sun jumping around the sky.

He's also telling me that I'm claiming to know more than Mr. Hill (the religion teacher who has supposedly read everything there is on Fatima) from just one night of research.

That is just an appeal to authority fallacy.

[Darth Wong]

My friend recognizes that the miracle was physically impossible, so attacking it with scientific explanations wouldn't help.

OK, ask him for photographic evidence instead of hearsay. Oh yeah, all they have is a picture of the sun, looking perfectly normal except for a dark patch in front of it. Ooooohhh.

As for the crowd of 100 000, apparently there were more than just religiously feverent Chrisitians. There were skeptics and believers alike and they all saw the same thing.

That is the oldest piece of bullshit in use by religious apologists: pretend that some of their number are actually skeptics, and use that to "prove" that they all must be telling the truth. In my experience, Christian apologists or miracle-observers who claim to be skeptics are nothing of the sort.

He's also telling me that I'm claiming to know more than Mr. Hill (the religion teacher who has supposedly read everything there is on Fatima) from just one night of research.

Reading everything there is about Fatima does not change the fact that this Mr. Hill character is an idiot. You can pump all of the information you want into Forrest Gump, but he's still Forrest Gump.

[Durandal]

My friend recognizes that the miracle was physically impossible, so attacking it with scientific explanations wouldn't help.

If he's conceded that it's scientifically impossible, then he's conceded that it cannot happen. Again, what's the simpler explanation?

1. A bunch of people grouped in one place, the majority of them expecting to see something miraculous and thought they saw the sun dancing around in the sky and come closer to them because of a combination of optical illusions from increased moisture content in the air and atmospheric lensing effects, staring at a bright object and a general expectation for such an event to occur.
2. The sun really did spontaneously gain astronomical amounts of angular momentum and angular kinetic energy, start spinning and dancing, and came closer to all these people and dried their clothes, defying every known law of physics in existence, even though none of this was observed by anyone else on the planet, and it was not objectively verifiable.

As for the crowd of 100 000, apparently there were more than just religiously feverent Chrisitians. There were skeptics and believers alike and they all saw the same thing.

These people were staring at the fucking sun! Of course they were all going to see weird things! That's what happens when you stare at bright objects. There's nothing they saw that can't be explained biologically as what the human eye does when it gets an overload of input like that.

[Kuroneko]

He's also telling me that I'm claiming to know more than Mr. Hill (the religion teacher who has supposedly read everything there is on Fatima) from just one night of research.

Point out that knowledge does not come with a right to be exempt from others' questioning. If Mr. Hill is truly so knowledgable, he should have no trouble at all with your cross-examinations. In fact, if his knowledge is actually convincing, he should gain a convert. After all, given reasonable evidence of God, it is only reasonable to start believing.

Just don't hold your breath waiting for this evidence.