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Zaia wrote:

Stravo wrote:You do a good job of haviong most of the guys on this board wrapped around your finger, bring some of that flirtatious charm into your RL and you will be rewarded.

If you tell him he will come.

*laughs softly to self* See, I'm fabulous at flirting, but only when it's just in fun. When it means something, I'm scared out of my wits. But I'll try...and if he reacts well to that, maybe I'll scrounge up enough courage to tell him how I really feel about him. I'm just so scared he's going to run away...

commitment sucks huh?

I think Tevar's idea is probably the best, but take it a step further. Rather than simply return a chaste kiss, actually reciprocate his gestures and contact. Hug him.. stroke his arm occasionally.. sit close to him.. etc. Talk sweet to him for every sweet word he does you. Return it in equal measure. In addition to adding your own gestures of affection to the list, reward (I use this word loosely - I consider it a form of positive reinforcement -hehe) him with the kiss, or some other similar gesture of appreciation. Let him know its welcome, and that you enjoy it.

Basically, what I'm suggesting is a gradual and subtle sort of "seduction", aimed at either encouraging him to grow bolder, or allowing you to indirectly "nudge" him to see if he'll go that way (either of you could gradually "increase the pressure" so to speak.)

Ideally, I would suggest some measure of conversation or honesty about things as well, as I am one who prefers the direct approach and to discuss all things (My GF and I rarely fight - we tend to discuss our problems - hell we discuss things ALOT.) Asking him right away might be worrisome, but with some preparation and a bit of "working" on him, maybe the question might be more suitable down the line.

Thats just my 2 cents tho.

Zaia wrote:

Stravo wrote:You do a good job of haviong most of the guys on this board wrapped around your finger, bring some of that flirtatious charm into your RL and you will be rewarded.

If you tell him he will come.

*laughs softly to self* See, I'm fabulous at flirting, but only when it's just in fun. When it means something, I'm scared out of my wits. But I'll try...and if he reacts well to that, maybe I'll scrounge up enough courage to tell him how I really feel about him. I'm just so scared he's going to run away...

I empathize completely. Im an utter charmer, until I mean it.

I can't really add anything, that no one else has said. Damn it, I always come to these threads about a day too late.

I'm going to throw my lot in with everyone else. He needs encouragement. Guys in general need encouragement; we're just not that secure. If we don't get some sort of overt, positive feedback toward our "moves," we freak out and convince ourselves that girls hate us. He probably stops what he's doing because you aren't letting him know that you like it, or you're not letting him know in an obvious way.

Things to try would be ...

1. Jump on him.
2. If you're sitting next to him at a movie or something, hold his hand or grab it and put it on your thigh.
3. Make sure your head is in frequent contact with his shoulder.

You'll notice a trend here. These are all very physical things. The bottom line is that you have to reciprocate, or else he'll just sit there in his little insecurity bubble telling himself how stupid he was for massaging or trying to show affection for you when you obviously don't like him.

If you want a real life example, here's a story from back before the beginning of the semester (actually the day I moved back in).

I was in my room with the door open, and my friend Djorde (pronounced like "George") come by with a cute girl (not gorgeous, but very cute), so we all sit outside in the hall and just talk about nothing. Others come and go, but eventually said girl and I are left sitting outside my room in the hall talking.

This loud pounding sound starts going. She asks me what I think it is. Since we're on the top floor, I venture a theory about giants having sex on the roof. This was me kind of testing the waters, seeing how she reacts to sexual innuendo and analogy. She likes it very much and laughs her ass off, making constant inferences to it for the next hour. Had she reacted differently, I probably would have concluded that she thought I was just fucking weird. Hell, I thought I was fucking weird after saying that.

We then decide that we're bored and to go to the lounge. It's very dark and empty in the lounge, since it's around 11pm or so, and school hasn't started yet. So we sit next to each other on one of the couches and start talking about more bullshit.

After about 45 minutes of talking, I lay down on the couch and put my head in her lap. She starts playing with my hair, and we talk a little more. Had she just let her arms hang, I would have taken it as a sign she didn't like having my head in such close proximity to her two primary sexual areas.

Eventually, we get to talking about how stressed out she is with being an RA and everything, and I tell her that I'm going to give her a massage. So, I sit up, she sits in-between my legs, and I go to work. While we're talking, I put my head very close to hers to see how she reacts, and she keeps her head where it is. This is me testing the waters a little more, seeing how she reacts to my breath on sensitive areas like her ears and neck. She doesn't appear to mind it, so I start kissing her neck, which is about the point where you find out if the water is a comfortable temperature or if it's a frozen lake. In this case, it was the former. I hear her exhale audibly, and I take that as my cue to turn her head back toward me and let the fireworks fly.

See? You don't have to be insanely obvious. Just throw him a crumb every once in a while, and he'll make a feast out of it.

For one being subtle does NOT work on guys. When it comes to relationships men are retarded. It sounds to me like he scared of you rejecting HIM. Men have no way of knowing a woman's mind. It sounds like you both are scared. For this to work one of you need to get the guts to say how you feel. From there things should be much easier

Durandal wrote:I'm going to throw my lot in with everyone else. He needs encouragement. Guys in general need encouragement; we're just not that secure. If we don't get some sort of overt, positive feedback toward our "moves," we freak out and convince ourselves that girls hate us. He probably stops what he's doing because you aren't letting him know that you like it, or you're not letting him know in an obvious way.

Things to try would be ...

1. Jump on him.
2. If you're sitting next to him at a movie or something, hold his hand or grab it and put it on your thigh.
3. Make sure your head is in frequent contact with his shoulder.

You'll notice a trend here. These are all very physical things. The bottom line is that you have to reciprocate, or else he'll just sit there in his little insecurity bubble telling himself how stupid he was for massaging or trying to show affection for you when you obviously don't like him.

If you want a real life example, here's a story from back before the beginning of the semester (actually the day I moved back in).

I was in my room with the door open, and my friend Djorde (pronounced like "George") come by with a cute girl (not gorgeous, but very cute), so we all sit outside in the hall and just talk about nothing. Others come and go, but eventually said girl and I are left sitting outside my room in the hall talking.

This loud pounding sound starts going. She asks me what I think it is. Since we're on the top floor, I venture a theory about giants having sex on the roof. This was me kind of testing the waters, seeing how she reacts to sexual innuendo and analogy. She likes it very much and laughs her ass off, making constant inferences to it for the next hour. Had she reacted differently, I probably would have concluded that she thought I was just fucking weird. Hell, I thought I was fucking weird after saying that.

We then decide that we're bored and to go to the lounge. It's very dark and empty in the lounge, since it's around 11pm or so, and school hasn't started yet. So we sit next to each other on one of the couches and start talking about more bullshit.

After about 45 minutes of talking, I lay down on the couch and put my head in her lap. She starts playing with my hair, and we talk a little more. Had she just let her arms hang, I would have taken it as a sign she didn't like having my head in such close proximity to her two primary sexual areas.

Eventually, we get to talking about how stressed out she is with being an RA and everything, and I tell her that I'm going to give her a massage. So, I sit up, she sits in-between my legs, and I go to work. While we're talking, I put my head very close to hers to see how she reacts, and she keeps her head where it is. This is me testing the waters a little more, seeing how she reacts to my breath on sensitive areas like her ears and neck. She doesn't appear to mind it, so I start kissing her neck, which is about the point where you find out if the water is a comfortable temperature or if it's a frozen lake. In this case, it was the former. I hear her exhale audibly, and I take that as my cue to turn her head back toward me and let the fireworks fly.

See? You don't have to be insanely obvious. Just throw him a crumb every once in a while, and he'll make a feast out of it.

Always have to upstage my advice, dont ya prettyboy?

Lagmonster wrote:Unfortunately, you have to talk to him. Guys are like hamsters. They can be cute, but mostly they are messy and neurotic and if they ever get it into their limited-scope minds that they ARE in a cage, they will bolt like hell and run under the fridge and you will never see them again.

FUQ FUQ FUQ

This guy reminds me of me, he probably really fancies you, but is afraid to go there because of rejection and friendship loss, as has been said.

In my experience, the best way to get over all the uncomfort is to get drunk together, but not too drunk.

Once alot of your social worries play less of a part it can be easy to just ask up front stuff..and to respond honestly...so get drunk.

Durandal wrote:I'm going to throw my lot in with everyone else. He needs encouragement. Guys in general need encouragement; we're just not that secure. If we don't get some sort of overt, positive feedback toward our "moves," we freak out and convince ourselves that girls hate us. He probably stops what he's doing because you aren't letting him know that you like it, or you're not letting him know in an obvious way.

Things to try would be ...

1. Jump on him.
2. If you're sitting next to him at a movie or something, hold his hand or grab it and put it on your thigh.
3. Make sure your head is in frequent contact with his shoulder.

You'll notice a trend here. These are all very physical things. The bottom line is that you have to reciprocate, or else he'll just sit there in his little insecurity bubble telling himself how stupid he was for massaging or trying to show affection for you when you obviously don't like him.

If you want a real life example, here's a story from back before the beginning of the semester (actually the day I moved back in).

I was in my room with the door open, and my friend Djorde (pronounced like "George") come by with a cute girl (not gorgeous, but very cute), so we all sit outside in the hall and just talk about nothing. Others come and go, but eventually said girl and I are left sitting outside my room in the hall talking.

This loud pounding sound starts going. She asks me what I think it is. Since we're on the top floor, I venture a theory about giants having sex on the roof. This was me kind of testing the waters, seeing how she reacts to sexual innuendo and analogy. She likes it very much and laughs her ass off, making constant inferences to it for the next hour. Had she reacted differently, I probably would have concluded that she thought I was just fucking weird. Hell, I thought I was fucking weird after saying that.

We then decide that we're bored and to go to the lounge. It's very dark and empty in the lounge, since it's around 11pm or so, and school hasn't started yet. So we sit next to each other on one of the couches and start talking about more bullshit.

After about 45 minutes of talking, I lay down on the couch and put my head in her lap. She starts playing with my hair, and we talk a little more. Had she just let her arms hang, I would have taken it as a sign she didn't like having my head in such close proximity to her two primary sexual areas.

Eventually, we get to talking about how stressed out she is with being an RA and everything, and I tell her that I'm going to give her a massage. So, I sit up, she sits in-between my legs, and I go to work. While we're talking, I put my head very close to hers to see how she reacts, and she keeps her head where it is. This is me testing the waters a little more, seeing how she reacts to my breath on sensitive areas like her ears and neck. She doesn't appear to mind it, so I start kissing her neck, which is about the point where you find out if the water is a comfortable temperature or if it's a frozen lake. In this case, it was the former. I hear her exhale audibly, and I take that as my cue to turn her head back toward me and let the fireworks fly.

See? You don't have to be insanely obvious. Just throw him a crumb every once in a while, and he'll make a feast out of it.

I think Durandel took what I said, and spiced it up some...that's kind of what I was saying..without the story..but yeah, I say take his advice.

I agree with Gil Hamilton here, I'm always late for stuff.

But nevertheless, I'm goint to pull a Switcheroo here and have Zaia and Brian switch roles...

Now, if I'm getting this right, you're both still a lot alike, and are both pretty insecure. You'd be the one making slighty flirtatious/friendly moves, and he'd be the one simply reacting to them in as casual of ways as possible. Now then, we can assume he's not initiating anything or taking things further becasue he's terrified that you'll react the wrong way and wreck the relationship, and you're not taking it any further because you're worried he'll react wrong and it'll wreck the relationship, so you just keep doing the same old thing, and hope that he'll make the next move.

I'm thinking you've answered your own question, Zaia. Somebody's got to start pushing a little harder, and you can't simply hope it's the other person, because they're hoping the exact same thing.

Unfortunately, Zaia, guys sometimes in situatiosn like this guys can be dumb as rocks. The simple solution is to ask him. If he says yes then your a winner, if he says no i can send you a ticket to Ireland and i'll do my best to charm you.

For a motivation to start applying action, just think, if hes as similar to you as you make him out to be, then hes putting himself through the same hell that your putting yourself through. He may be stopping because he doesn't get a lovey response back, thus thinking that you don't have interest in him and trys to compensate with the super buddy mode, rather having friendship then nothingship. (who knows how much I follow that myself)

Guess I'm being repetative, but like everyone has been saying, make some moves on him. Hope things work out for you.

Well, I had a long post full of great advice, but stupid shitsack Internet Exploder for some reason took me hitting the backspace key (while the cursor was active and in the text box, mind you) as me hitting the go back button and erased my fucking post before I got a chance to submit it.

Zai, you're going to have to be the one who makes the next move. He's a straight guy, which means he's insecure and, frankly, stupid around women (I know becaise I'm a straight guy, and I'm insecure and stupid around women, and all my straight guy friends are also insecure and stupid around women). This is a situation where sublety won't do, because if he picks up on subtlety, he'll dismiss it as him blowing innocent gestures out of proportion. You'll be doing both of you a great favor by following the advice given by several others in this thread and giving him hints a blind man could see. You might think you're being obvious, but just imagine the difference between you and him as the difference between a man wearing his glasses and the same man without his glasses. What's overlarge and obvious to the man with glasses will be blurry and just barely visible to the man without.

Hey men, how many good female friends do you have that you're not the least bit attracted to? That you would never date if you were single and they were up for it? Probably almost none.

There's no way this guy's not interested. Guys just don't spend this much time with a girl, and act this way, if they're not. Just make a move, and don't be too subtle about it. Lots of good advice above.

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Hey men, how many good female friends do you have that you're not the least bit attracted to? That you would never date if you were single and they were up for it? Probably almost none.

Well there's one or two I'd never date or fuck, and there's a few that I'd just never date.

There's no way this guy's not interested. Guys just don't spend this much time with a girl, and act this way, if they're not. Just make a move, and don't be too subtle about it. Lots of good advice above.

That's about the size of it.

Three simple words: "I love that."

Next time he gives you a massage or is playing with your hair, quietly murmur those words. That's all you have to do. If he's receptive to the message, he'll let you know in short order. If not, he won't think twice about you saying it.

Snoogans.

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Hey men, how many good female friends do you have that you're not the least bit attracted to? That you would never date if you were single and they were up for it? Probably almost none.

*Raises his hand.* Actually I have a a few cases like that, however, I will admit that at some point during said friendship I have been interested.

Yeah, just start out small and work your way slowly upward, like with a light kiss on the cheek and tell him you really like it when he gives you a massage. Or tell him that he doesn't have to stop when he plays with your hair and stuff.

But just remember to start out small and slow. You don't want to do something like throw him down on the couch and ram your tongue down his throat next week.

I'm basically just reiterating what everyone else has pretty much said: slow, small, and flirtatious. That should let him know you're interested. And don't be afraid to ask him out eventually if he doesn't.

Best of luck to you, dear.

Well, nothing is going to happen until one of you get the courage to act upon your feelings ( which its obvious you both have ) I think, if you're happy with the way things are, you should do nothing... but if you want a relashonship, or for things to go farther you at least owe it to yourself to try and take that step and see what the territory is like. Things have their way of working out for the best, and i think you would enjoy the outcome.

[mode=fallout]
War, War never changes. The battle between the genders rages on, even as miscommunication and fear of commitment threten to wipe us out....

[/mode]

When the fear of rejection becomes less than the frustration of not knowing, one of you will make a move.

I'd like to say thank you to all of you who have responded and encouraged me. It really does mean a lot to me, and I deeply appreciate the fact that you took time to read through my concerns and respond to them. I mean that; you really have helped me to see things more clearly.

Essentially what needs to happen is that I have to become comfortable flirting the way he does, or he needs to become comfortable flirting the way I do. I can put myself on the line with words (over the phone, email, AIM), but I get really skittish with physical flirting, and he seems to not know how to respond with verbal flirting but doesn't mind getting cuddly now and then. Probably because I'm the one who's realized this issue exists, I'll be the one who adjusts my way (I have a little bit, but not even CLOSE to being as obvious as you guys are telling me I need to be).



Oh, and Pounder, I will take you up on that ticket to Ireland if things with Brian don't work out...

Whew...well for him liking physical and you more into verbal.

I say try the whole Durandal laying on the shoulder angle. It's soothing and calming and has little persay in getting skittish, also with verbal he's going to probably get a bit more confident since that too takes some without ending up tongue-tied.

So stick in there and it'll work out .

Yeah, I suggest a little of both. Just make baby steps and everything should hopefully work out fine.

Again, good luck in your, um... quest, I guess.

Zaia wrote:Ok, so, there's this guy that I've recently fallen in love with who I've only gotten to know over the past couple months.

Isn't it a little soon to be in love with the kid?