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Darth Garden Gnome wrote:There really is no reason why Voyager was able to withstand that bombardment from Borg Cubes on a regular basis. All other times we see the Borg they are kicking the crap out of Federation warships, and usually far more than one.

Voyager actually DOESN'T withstand any significant bombardment from cubes except in Unamatrix Zero. However, Voyager had information on Unamatrix Zero on them, so the cube might not have been going all out.

I recall one incident where Voyager managed to disable, if not severely damage a Borg Scout... Wasn't a sphere or a cube, it was like two rectangles joined together in the middle... Not really rectangles either, the corners were flattened.

does anybody remeber the first encounter with the borg, where the enterprise blow a fucken huge whole in a cube with just phasers.

if you assume that ship didn't have its shields raised, it would be pritty logical that voyager would be able to dish out a far amout of damage on a cube/sphere if its shields where down so it wouldn't be totally out of order for voyager to distory a cube if its shields where down anyway imho.

Wrath wrote:does anybody remeber the first encounter with the borg, where the enterprise blow a fucken huge whole in a cube with just phasers.

if you assume that ship didn't have its shields raised, it would be pritty logical that voyager would be able to dish out a far amout of damage on a cube/sphere if its shields where down so it wouldn't be totally out of order for voyager to distory a cube if its shields where down anyway imho.

There is a little thing called sensors that can sense ships coming. Second, what about hull armor. Third, the weapons could still be active.

Think it through next time.

Admiral Johnason wrote:

Wrath wrote:does anybody remeber the first encounter with the borg, where the enterprise blow a fucken huge whole in a cube with just phasers.

if you assume that ship didn't have its shields raised, it would be pritty logical that voyager would be able to dish out a far amout of damage on a cube/sphere if its shields where down so it wouldn't be totally out of order for voyager to distory a cube if its shields where down anyway imho.

There is a little thing called sensors that can sense ships coming. Second, what about hull armor. Third, the weapons could still be active.

Think it through next time.

you miss understand my meaning, there is a voyager ep where the crew are held on a disabled borg cube which has no shields or weapons just internal force fields, theres another one where a borg cube was in the process of reactivating itselfs what I am saying is voyager could have distroyed those cubes pritty easy given, the damage with saw the E-D dish out to an unshield borg cube. which we can assume would have had simlair amour to the ships i'm talking about.

also if you think about the E-D I believe managed to dish out 40% damage to that borg cube with a single full power phaser shot, brings into question just how powerful are 8472??

Exonerate wrote:I recall one incident where Voyager managed to disable, if not severely damage a Borg Scout... Wasn't a sphere or a cube, it was like two rectangles joined together in the middle... Not really rectangles either, the corners were flattened.

Yeah. It hit it with weapons, the beamed a torpedo aboard. I mensioned several times already.

I understand, but we have to remain within reason. You only said that the cube was unsheilded.

And clean up your typing.

Admiral Johnason wrote:I understand, but we have to remain within reason. You only said that the cube was unsheilded.

And clean up your typing.

but even an unshielded cube a voyager phaser/torp barge would be pritty effective if the borg cube encountered by E-D has comparable amour to the rest of the cubes, bar tac cubes.

I am pretty sure they would have upgraded by then. And also in ST: FC an upgraded Fed WAR task force had the shit beat out of it by a single cube. It took the E-E to turn the tide and then only because of the fact that Picard knew a weak spot. And by the time the E-E arrived the sheilds had clearly fallen on the cube and you can still see ships being destroyed.

Admiral Johnason wrote:I am pretty sure they would have upgraded by then. And also in ST: FC an upgraded Fed WAR task force had the shit beat out of it by a single cube. It took the E-E to turn the tide and then only because of the fact that Picard knew a weak spot. And by the time the E-E arrived the sheilds had clearly fallen on the cube and you can still see ships being destroyed.

how do we know the shields had fallen though? I don't remeber any annoucement of the shields having fields, we know the cube had suffered heavy damage but is that through the shields ?

You could see where the phaser blasts from ships were hitting the cube when the Defiant was moving in.

Admiral Johnason wrote:You could see where the phaser blasts from ships were hitting the cube when the Defiant was moving in.

we see the same thing when vojager ran over the surface of that tac cube as well....

Wrath wrote:

Admiral Johnason wrote:You could see where the phaser blasts from ships were hitting the cube when the Defiant was moving in.

we see the same thing when vojager ran over the surface of that tac cube as well....

Yes, but that cube had better armor and weapons and thus was not in as bad a situation.

Admiral Johnason wrote:
Yes, but that cube had better armor and weapons and thus was not in as bad a situation.

not my point, my point is when have you visably see a borg ship shield?.

most of the time the hits seem to hit the hull. so either the borg always have the shields switched off or the hulling huging shields the borg use stop are working even when they appear not to be.

in BoBW, you see stuff hitting what appears to be sheiids and the shuttle (not sure if this is right) passing though them. Also, when phasers are adapted to , you can see a sheild blocking the E-D phasers.

Admiral Johnason wrote:in BoBW, you see stuff hitting what appears to be sheiids and the shuttle (not sure if this is right) passing though them. Also, when phasers are adapted to , you can see a sheild blocking the E-D phasers.

what about post BOBW?, after the federation made changes to its weapon systems to improve damage potenal?

because pre BOBW the phasers had been nullified and did no damage to a borg ship afterward in FC they where doing damage through the shields...

That doesn't mean the Borg would have just thrown away their sheilds. Think. They still partially work and aren't useless. Even in the B&B era, the Borg aren't that stupid.

I take that back.

Admiral Johnason wrote:That doesn't mean the Borg would have just thrown away their sheilds. Think. They still partially work and aren't useless. Even in the B&B era, the Borg aren't that stupid.

I take that back.

i'm not saying they thrown away shields what i'm saying is the damage we saw happen in FC could have been done through the shields rather then the shields being down.

The only way that could happen is if the Federation knew the sheild frequencey. However, if this was true then the battle would've been much shorter and lopsided.

Admiral Johnason wrote:The only way that could happen is if the Federation knew the sheild frequencey. However, if this was true then the battle would've been much shorter and lopsided.

oor they managed to adapt the phasers so atleast some of the energy penetrated the borg shields, much like they did in the first incounter.

It seems all Trek shield systems allow some energy bleedthrough (probably because they modulate and have to pass through zero during their cycle). It's possible to deliver damage to a ship when the shields are up--however, we've never, to the best of my knowledge, seen physical hull damage to that extent on any shielded ship.

One must understand that 'adaptability' is not a get out of jail free card (regardless of B&B). Once the Feds understand the process in which the 'adaptability' works, then the possibility of end arounding it exsists.

Unfortunatly, due to the phaser fire-fight later on the Enterprise, the Federation DIDN'T figure out an anti-Borg adaptability technique, even setting every phaser to a diffrent randomly rotating frequency pattern didn't work. The shields were probably weakened at that point.

RedImperator wrote:It seems all Trek shield systems allow some energy bleedthrough (probably because they modulate and have to pass through zero during their cycle). It's possible to deliver damage to a ship when the shields are up--however, we've never, to the best of my knowledge, seen physical hull damage to that extent on any shielded ship.

but the borg shield types appear to be different from the types we see used by the federation ect....

as far as i'm aware fed shields can not be adapted to effective block a weapon type its simply a case of put my energy in the sheild to make it stronger in the case of fed shields.