Posted: 2003-04-27 11:53pm
The Viscount is only a name given, never a description. What do you base that conclusion on?Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Viscount-class is probably near the Executor in scale.
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Mon Cal SSD?
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Posted: 2003-04-27 11:56pm
I find this unlikely as official states that it's a minimum-time design for a heavy combatant (direct descendant of the MC80/Liberty designs). At least for the first flight it looks like they ripped out of the fighter bays in favour of massively overpowered shielding (Flight II had 4 squadrons of fighters, Flight III had eight).Illuminatus Primus wrote:I don't think the MC80B (Mon Remonda) is really only 1.2 km.
I think its more likely a transposition of 2.1 km at least--remember this thing manages to outgun an Executor from certain angles.
The MC90s were only 1.2-km in length as well, so it's not unreasonable for have the MC80Bs of 1.2-km.
Posted: 2003-04-27 11:58pm
You'd need a good fighter wing, though - one well trained in "combined arms" space combat. That is not always available to the Rebellion, though it's likely to be normal for the Republic.Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Not neccesarily. While in a straight out slug-fest with TLs I'm pretty convinced an ISD would win, once you throw fighters into the mix an MC80 could give an ISD a run for its money.phongn wrote:A single MC80 (or another ship of comparable tonnage) is dead against an ISD, but it will likely inflict severe damage.
All things equal an MC80 should be dead.
Posted: 2003-04-28 12:14am
Ender wrote:The Viscount is only a name given, never a description. What do you base that conclusion on?Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Viscount-class is probably near the Executor in scale.
Where is the Viscount ever mentioned??
Posted: 2003-04-28 12:19am
Which is my whole point--these ships are supposed to outclass ISDs and in one occasion--out gun an Executor.phongn wrote:I find this unlikely as official states that it's a minimum-time design for a heavy combatant (direct descendant of the MC80/Liberty designs). At least for the first flight it looks like they ripped out of the fighter bays in favour of massively overpowered shielding (Flight II had 4 squadrons of fighters, Flight III had eight).Illuminatus Primus wrote:I don't think the MC80B (Mon Remonda) is really only 1.2 km.
I think its more likely a transposition of 2.1 km at least--remember this thing manages to outgun an Executor from certain angles.
The MC90s were only 1.2-km in length as well, so it's not unreasonable for have the MC80Bs of 1.2-km.
The MC80B is a completely different design from the MC80 and MC80a.
The lower-limit demands that a MC80B can fire a broadside that's heavier than the forward fire of an Executor.
I think 2.1 km is reasonable--if not neccessary for at least that firepower.
At Endor, 3.8 km and 1.4 km cruisers were present.
Posted: 2003-04-28 12:21am
IN Hero's trial, they mention increasing production of Viscount class Star Defenders from the Corellisn yard.RTN wrote:Ender wrote:The Viscount is only a name given, never a description. What do you base that conclusion on?Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Viscount-class is probably near the Executor in scale.
Where is the Viscount ever mentioned??
Posted: 2003-04-28 12:22am
Ender wrote:The Viscount is only a name given, never a description. What do you base that conclusion on?Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Viscount-class is probably near the Executor in scale.
Mediator, described as a Mon Calamari battlecruiser. This means that it is almost certainly larger, more heavily armed and armoured than the two types of cruisers at the Battle of Endor, and possibly approaching the size of Home One (depending on whether it's considered a battlesruiser, battleship or commandship in Mon Calamari terms). The use of the term "battlecruiser" is consistent throughout Vector Prime.
Viscount; Mon Calamari Star Defender; substantially larger than a battlecruiser, which should be appreciably larger than a cruiser or destroyer. The previously largest Mon Calamari ship loaned to the Rebel Alliance or New Republic was Home One at almost 4km long. Viscount ought, implicitly, to be appreciably longer. It is probably in excess of six kilometres long and may even compare to great human-designed warships such as the Executor (almost 18km long). This indicates the Republic has finally started building larger warships, possibly having learned a lesson from The Black Fleet Crisis.
Viscount is no shorter than Home One, and the battlecruiser Mediator is about half its length, therefore Mediator must be about 2km long or more.
The term "Star Defender" is a novelty; it probably serves as a brand name for what is a battleship or commandship.
emphasis mine.Vector Prime wrote:and it was spectacular. Like all Mon Calamari ships, this one was unique, an artwork, sleek and flowing, and ultimately deadly. It was the largest ship ever produced on the watery world, nearly twice the size of the battle cruiser they had left behind between Osarian and Rhommamool, and the first Mon Calamari Star Defender produced for the New Republic fleet.
Posted: 2003-04-28 12:29am
Alot of that is Dr. Saxton's speculation based on the terms of battlecruiser and cruiser and destroyer, all of which are used interchangebly throughout all thge novels. While I agree the Viscount is probably similar to Home One's size, I see no reason to think it is anything comparable to the Executor's scale.
Posted: 2003-04-28 12:33am
Perhaps that's because that's what those words mean. The EU's moronic nomenclature fuck ups doesn't change the fact that destroyers are called destroyers in SW, the corporate equivalent to a battleship is called a battleship, and the commandship is called just that, a commandship.Ender wrote:Alot of that is Dr. Saxton's speculation based on the terms of battlecruiser and cruiser and destroyer, all of which are used interchangebly throughout all thge novels.
Anyway:
The New Republic does now control the majority of the galaxy and most patrol all of it. Its a galactic-spanning organization--and using little starliner scale cruisers as its backbone does not seem reasonable.
There's no reason to assume that is only Home One's size.
Thinking of canon itself, we see a bunch of Mon Cal cruisers and one larger craft--which assuming as little as possible must be at least a battlecruiser--which makes the Mediator Home One's size, and the Viscount 2 x Home One.
Posted: 2003-04-28 12:42am
I haven't had time to read a SW novel in about 6 years but uh... didn't the Yuuzhan Vong (spelling?) take Coruscant?Illuminatus Primus wrote:Perhaps that's because that's what those words mean. The EU's moronic nomenclature fuck ups doesn't change the fact that destroyers are called destroyers in SW, the corporate equivalent to a battleship is called a battleship, and the commandship is called just that, a commandship.Ender wrote:Alot of that is Dr. Saxton's speculation based on the terms of battlecruiser and cruiser and destroyer, all of which are used interchangebly throughout all thge novels.
Anyway:
The New Republic does now control the majority of the galaxy and most patrol all of it. Its a galactic-spanning organization--and using little starliner scale cruisers as its backbone does not seem reasonable.
There's no reason to assume that is only Home One's size.
Thinking of canon itself, we see a bunch of Mon Cal cruisers and one larger craft--which assuming as little as possible must be at least a battlecruiser--which makes the Mediator Home One's size, and the Viscount 2 x Home One.
Posted: 2003-04-28 12:45am
After about a year (IIRC) of fighting, which itself was several years after the Empire finally surrendered.RTN wrote: I haven't had time to read a SW novel in about 6 years but uh... didn't the Yuuzhan Vong (spelling?) take Coruscant?
Posted: 2003-04-28 12:50am
Over a year. 1.5-2 years.
Posted: 2003-04-28 10:54am
I don't think the Viscount-class is as absolutely enormous as the Executor, which was designed more for show than anything else. But it is certainly many times bigger than an ISD. Maybe it's the size of Admiral Giel's battleship?
Posted: 2003-04-28 11:17am
Did the book ever mention what the Viscount class was armed with?
Posted: 2003-04-28 02:54pm
IIRC a standard Mon Cal cruiser was stated to be no bigger or better armed than a Victory Class Destroyer. I hope that helps the debate it bit. One on One an ISD can kill easily anything up to MC80a. When it comes to the MC80b and up thats more in the air due to conflicting reports over the size and weaponary. But when it comes to Fighters on Mon Cals i've never heard of a Moncal carrying more than 4 squadrons.
Posted: 2003-04-28 07:55pm
Home One had 10 squadrons. MC80[A] and Liberty seemed to have 3 squadrons. MC80B had 0, 4 or 8 squadrons depending on which flight. MC90 had 6 squadrons.Darth Pounder wrote:IIRC a standard Mon Cal cruiser was stated to be no bigger or better armed than a Victory Class Destroyer. I hope that helps the debate it bit. One on One an ISD can kill easily anything up to MC80a. When it comes to the MC80b and up thats more in the air due to conflicting reports over the size and weaponary. But when it comes to Fighters on Mon Cals i've never heard of a Moncal carrying more than 4 squadrons.
Posted: 2003-04-28 11:24pm
Yeah, but by design a Victory could win an ISD due to longer range weaponry -- even with its less firepower. The only reason it wouldn't would be fighter adn bomber inferiority to ISD.Darth Pounder wrote:IIRC a standard Mon Cal cruiser was stated to be no bigger or better armed than a Victory Class Destroyer. I hope that helps the debate it bit. One on One an ISD can kill easily anything up to MC80a. When it comes to the MC80b and up thats more in the air due to conflicting reports over the size and weaponary. But when it comes to Fighters on Mon Cals i've never heard of a Moncal carrying more than 4 squadrons.
Posted: 2003-05-03 01:07am
Thats pretty close to it. Jania was 16 when she joined Rouge Squadron IIRC, and she's 18 now.Illuminatus Primus wrote:Over a year. 1.5-2 years.
Hard to support that conclusion...
Posted: 2003-05-03 03:24am
The concussion missiles RMAX out at 60 WEG space units. That's more than the ion cannons (50) but not the TLs (75.) And the Victory-I and Victory-II are inferior in all other categories. Can you justify your claim of how the Victory has "longer range?"RTN wrote:Yeah, but by design a Victory could win an ISD due to longer range weaponry -- even with its less firepower. The only reason it wouldn't would be fighter adn bomber inferiority to ISD.
And if anything could possibly have longer range, it is almost certainly the concussion missiles. Otherwise, both sides got TLs and ion, and the ISD got more modern ones. It is hard to conceive they'd have less firing range considering their greater power.
Posted: 2003-05-03 01:04pm
Has the ventral vulnerability of ISDs ever been really exploited in canon? That would help the 'ISD--Serious design flaw' thread... 
Posted: 2003-05-03 01:24pm
"Some of you still don't seem to realize how well equipped and organized the Rebel Alliance is. Their vessels are excellent, their pilots better. And they are propelled by something more powerful than mere engines: this perverse, reactionary fanaticism of theirs. They're more dangerous than most of you realize."
General Tagge, Episode 4 novel
General Tagge, Episode 4 novel
Posted: 2003-05-04 12:48am
You forgot a few things, those peskey Skywalkers and those crazy SolosIngersoll wrote:"Some of you still don't seem to realize how well equipped and organized the Rebel Alliance is. Their vessels are excellent, their pilots better. And they are propelled by something more powerful than mere engines: this perverse, reactionary fanaticism of theirs. They're more dangerous than most of you realize."
General Tagge, Episode 4 novel