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Anarchism is extreme libertarianism, is it not?

In the same way that communism is extreme socialism, you could say. Likewise, not all socialists would consider communism utopia.

Bullshit. Atheism and communism are far more dissimilar than libertarianism and anarchism.

That's not what I meant. In the sense that we are labeled anarchists for being libertarians when in reality we are not, so too are atheists labeled communists when they are not.

Most libertarians are not anarchists. The Libertarian party isn't. The Cato Institute isn't. The Objectivists aren't. See http://www.anti-state.com for the anarchist fringe.

OK, it seems that I forgot to include a disclaimer and to insert smileys randomly throughout the post of mine to indicate that I wasn't writing a serious essay but rather a humorous summary of a discussion I had the previous day. I wasn't trying to be serious or only point out the passing similarily to get some chuckles.

neoolong wrote:That gets me to thinking. Do the people there eat pokemon? Because all the animals seem to be pokemon.

I recall them raising buffalo analogs in large herds which wouldn't have any point unless they where going to be slaughtered down the road.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

neoolong wrote:That gets me to thinking. Do the people there eat pokemon? Because all the animals seem to be pokemon.

I recall them raising buffalo analogs in large herds which wouldn't have any point unless they where going to be slaughtered down the road.

Even a better point...Ash and gang have eaten Hamburgers.

And given that they have some similar type of Buffalo Pokemon as well as sometype of Cow Pokemon as well.

We can do the math .

Some fucktard on antistate.com wrote: there's got to be some reason why we are the only people who even realize that state == enslavement.

Yeah. Because you're a bunch of loonies, and in all of your self-justifying prose you've never once stopped to propose viable alternatives to the nation-state model.

Anarchism, of course, is NOT a viable alternative.

But pokemon are pretty much sentient. At least some types are. That's like murder.

neoolong wrote:But pokemon are pretty much sentient. At least some types are. That's like murder.

Yeah, funky eh?

Iceberg wrote:

Some fucktard on antistate.com wrote: there's got to be some reason why we are the only people who even realize that state == enslavement.

Yeah. Because you're a bunch of loonies, and in all of your self-justifying prose you've never once stopped to propose viable alternatives to the nation-state model.

Anarchism, of course, is NOT a viable alternative.

This is why most libertarians reject anarchism.

Ghost Rider wrote:Even a better point...Ash and gang have eaten Hamburgers.

And given that they have some similar type of Buffalo Pokemon as well as sometype of Cow Pokemon as well.

We can do the math .

Heh, enjoy the delicious taste of Miltank and Tauros.

Actually, in the original pokedex entry for Farfetch'd in Red/Blue, they mention the birds being a delicacy which why they are rare, IIRC. And the Farfetch'd eyecatch for Johto League Champions has the entry "This pokemon carries around it's very own seasoning!" (the only reason I know this is by an interesting coincidence, my roommate is watching pokemon and the Farfetch'd eyecatch came up)

Iceberg wrote:

Some fucktard on antistate.com wrote: there's got to be some reason why we are the only people who even realize that state == enslavement.

Yeah. Because you're a bunch of loonies, and in all of your self-justifying prose you've never once stopped to propose viable alternatives to the nation-state model.

Anarchism, of course, is NOT a viable alternative.

I for one will not be incapable of laughing when these anarchists "Fighting the Man" get their way in some crappy third world and are suddenly attacked, raped, robbed or murdered by their "free" people.

Anarchists (and to a lesser extent, libertarians) are guilty of profound human naivete. For some reason, they honestly seem to believe that:

A) humans are all intelligent and rational, and will work for mutual benefit in the absence of authority because that's the smart thing to do.

B) government social programs are unnecessary because humans are loving and kind and will gladly give enough money to charity to completely replace all of them.

The weird thing is that so many libertarians are actually quite knowledgeable, yet they still hold these weird beliefs. I love the way they point to isolated incidents of people giving charitably and conclude that no coerced charity whatsoever should be necessary as a result, totally disregarding all of the historical data contradicting that position.

A) humans are all intelligent and rational, and will work for mutual benefit in the absence of authority because that's the smart thing to do.

On the contrary, human beings suck, and that's what makes government power so potentially dangerous. It's like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys, to borrow P.J. O'Rourke's example.

B) government social programs are unnecessary because humans are loving and kind and will gladly give enough money to charity to completely replace all of them.

Actually, libertarians are more interested in analyzing just how effective these programs are in achieving their desired aims than they are in relegating them to charity.

Most libertarians come as being more extreme than they actually are, as Marina pointed out in a recent thread. I would fully support the right of states and localities to adopt social programs that they feel necessary. I just don't like the idea of Washington running all this shit centrally.

Well, there is at least one centrallised control in the Pokémon anime. Professor Oak. He basically is THE authority in the world of Pokémon. Even the games label him as such.
Why? In he world of Pokémon there is one source of power. The Pokémon themselves. Any trainer or other person is allowed to carry 6 Pokémon, no more than that. The 7th is automatically sent to Professor Oak to be in his care. Oak is therefore the only person in the world that is allowed to keep more than 6 of the critters. Luckily he's a benevolent power factor, but he is still probably the most powerful man in that world.

Oh, and on the firearms vs. Pokémon argument I agree that some Pokémon are definately vulnerable to gunfire, but how would gunfire work against a being made of solid steel or a barrier able to withstand a blast that could level a building?

Who said to use firearms solely against Pokemon?

You use them against the owners.

Has anyone got any good arguments or sites against anarchy?

HemlockGrey wrote:I think you have far too much time on your hands.

Tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-tick

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Has anyone got any good arguments or sites against anarchy?

You're not considering invading the anti-state forums, are you?

Durran Korr wrote:

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Has anyone got any good arguments or sites against anarchy?

You're not considering invading the anti-state forums, are you?

No, I've got that same gullible girl on MSN now that seems to think it is a good idea and my arguments aren't holding to her wall of ignorance.

Quick, get me something!

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

Durran Korr wrote:

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Has anyone got any good arguments or sites against anarchy?

You're not considering invading the anti-state forums, are you?

No, I've got that same gullible girl on MSN now that seems to think it is a good idea and my arguments aren't holding to her wall of ignorance.

Quick, get me something!

Well, what kind of anarchist is she? Anarcho-capitalist or the flag-burning, commie type?

McNum wrote: Oh, and on the firearms vs. Pokémon argument I agree that some Pokémon are definately vulnerable to gunfire, but how would gunfire work against a being made of solid steel or a barrier able to withstand a blast that could level a building?

Ash was once heavily criticized for trying to send one of his Pokemon against a guy with a handgun.

Durran Korr wrote:

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

Durran Korr wrote: You're not considering invading the anti-state forums, are you?

No, I've got that same gullible girl on MSN now that seems to think it is a good idea and my arguments aren't holding to her wall of ignorance.

Quick, get me something!

Well, what kind of anarchist is she? Anarcho-capitalist or the flag-burning, commie type?

I've only just found out she is one, I never knew they came in different flavours!

I'll post a copy of the convo up later on, but I could do with some more concrete arguments that I haven't thought of.

Darth Wong wrote:

Gil Hamilton wrote:Everyone is armed. While guns don't seem to really exist in the land of pokemon, everyone seems to be carrying around and in command of some dangerous pokemon, which they can use to defend themselves and their loved ones and property against criminals.

However, the Pokemon appear to be the ONLY permissible form of private armament. Most Pokemon would be useless against firearms, which any criminal could use to wreak havoc in this fair city, seemingly defended only by children with Pokemon balls.

You do know that several adults, including the police, also use Pokemon, right? And many of them are unafraid of guns.

Law and order is nonexistent (although I suppose libertarians consider anarchy to be "utopia"): the police officers we see never seem to interfere in the street brawls which routinely erupt between youth gangs, and no one even bothers contacting police when a Pokemon is kidnapped, which suggests that they're of marginal usefulness.

That's because more often than not, they just go right after the kidnappers in question, who are more often than not, Jessie and James. As Ash is the one with the most experience in dealing with the two of them(at least three years, with little breaks), he's the best to deal with them. The fact that there are often no police around(the majority of TR attacks take place between towns and cities), and that Ash usually can reach and stop TR the same day of the kidnapping help also.

When other members of Team Rocket(the competent ones) come up with something, the Authorities do get involved, and are usually well into the investigation by the time Ash-Tachi arrive.

Justice is swift and criminals always succumb to "citizens arrest". The government and local authorities don't ever tend to succeed in fighting crime, it is always the well armed citizen that prevails in foiling evil schemes.

The "well-armed citizens" are always children armed with Pokemon; where are the adults and police officers with firearms?

Try the Safari Zone.

Look above. One episode of the series was banned in the US because they had guns in it.

In a short order, the side of law and liberty always wins. Even the very world seems to bend to the will of law and order, with the laws of physics routinely changing to punish and brutalize lawbreakers, case in point, even boxes full of ice can become powerful explosives when Team Rocket is in the vicinity (this actually happened once).

Actually, a successful enforcement of law means that crime is minimized, whereas the laws of physics in Pokemon invariably allow criminals to not only get away to commit another crime, but to survive even the most seemingly horrendous accidents, no matter how stupendously incompetent they are. In reality, the laws of physics in Pokemon seem designed to guarantee perpetual insecurity, disorder, and anarchy.

Those only apply to Jessie and James, who have 'Toon-level Character Shields. Other Team Rocket Agents don't get off that easily. It usually takes Giovanni himself to bail them out, something he only does for his best agents. The times Jessie and James have been arrested, they had to escape on their own.

Likewise, corrupt fatcat officials, such as the mayor of that one town, end up getting their comeuppance by the end of the episode and lose authority.

To be replaced by whom?

They never say. Ash-tachi are usually gone before that is sorted out. In the incedent in which it occcured, there was an election coming up, so I suppose the other guy won.

Small businesses and barter of services rule the day. In the world of Pokemon, small businesses tend to be the best kind and hold their own against large corporations. Case in point, the best charcoal doesn't come from the factory that mass produces it, but rather comes from the that guy who lives near the Ilex woods in Johto, who goes out with his Farfetch'd, cuts and collects the wood himself, and hand chars the bricks. Everyone recognizes this.

In the modern world, the best products often come from small-fry operations. But that doesn't change the fact that the big operations make and control all of the money.

That's where Sliph Co. and guys like Giovanni come in.

Anyone who is willing to work hard can be successful. No matter what your station in life, you can make it through hardwork and dedication. For instance, every time Jesse and James need a new giant robot for their schemes, you will often here them complaining about having to work some crappy jobs to pay for it. Likewise, being a successful pokemon trainer is obviously quite lucrative if you are good at it, as demonstrated by Gary Oak, who could afford to support a fancy sports car and a half dozen floozies (and they didn't look like cheap floozies either).

Actually, the financial success of people who contribute nothing of substantive value to society in the Pokemon universe is an indictment of its values. We are talking about a society which seems to revolve around glorified cock-fights, in which people train animals to fight one another for sport.

Actually, the focus seems to be as much, if not more so, on the Pokemon themselves. Many small businesses utilize Pokemon as messengers, weather indicators, batteries, heavy machinery, and many other duties.

Sea Skimmer wrote:Ash was once heavily criticized for trying to send one of his Pokemon against a guy with a handgun.

Indeed he was. A pikachu is not bulletproof. Neither is a great deal of pokémon.

I would, however, like to see someone take down the likes of Steelix, Gengar and Mewtwo with guns.
Steelix is made of steel and is very huge. Anti-tank shells would be a minimum here.
Gengar is immune to physical attacks. It is hard to shoot something that can't be hit by physical means.
And finally Mewtwo... In the first movie he shows to have psychic powers strong enough to cause a worldwide storm. And his telekinetic ablities to move many objects at once was demonstrated when he sent out a swarm of black pokéballs to capture Ash and co's pokémon. He also created a barrier to protect against a pokémon of near equal power to himslf (Mew). I think that would make him near impossible to take down. (Heck, he might even be up there competing with Frieza Saga DBZ characters in terms of power.)

Just a few of the pokémon I think would be near impossible to kill with guns. Most pokémon are suspectable to conventional weapons, but not all. That is probably why guns are so rare in Pokémon World. You never know if that innocent looking kid in the corner carries something to make your gun look useless. That and thier weapons industry is severely lacking... Just look at the power of the average bazooka Team Rocket usually wields...

Sea Skimmer wrote:

McNum wrote: Oh, and on the firearms vs. Pokémon argument I agree that some Pokémon are definately vulnerable to gunfire, but how would gunfire work against a being made of solid steel or a barrier able to withstand a blast that could level a building?

Ash was once heavily criticized for trying to send one of his Pokemon against a guy with a handgun.

In that case, the woman doing the Criticizing was (an)Officer Jenny, and he was interfereing with a Police training exercise.

Anyways, that's something any officer would tell a kid in that situation.