Get your fill of sci-fi, science, and mockery of stupid ideas
http://stardestroyer.dyndns-home.com/
That's my point. If Vader does use his powers in the duel with Maul (lots of Force speed, jumps and pushes, possibly even a bit of choking), he win emerge victorious. If he doesn't, he will lose.Darth Pounder wrote:Exactly, yet we know that a Jedi with the Force as his ally is capable of WAY more than simple TK and saber throws.
Um, how about the fact that he was having trouble breathing even before he was hit by the Emperors force lightning and that he had trouble standing back up after his fight with Luke. Even if Vader was holding back during the fight, he still could have force pushed Luke away when Vader fell down. Looke at the time line from Vader had to be in his late 50's or so in RotJ there is no way his endurance could match Maul's.Defiant wrote:There's nothing in RotJ to indicate that Vader was old and weak, at least physically. Luke was the only one who could defeat Vader. Not because of superior skill (Luke was a novice at best), but because he was Vader's son. Its clear that Vader held back during every confrontation. Even when he cut off Luke's hand in tESB, he was restraining himself, because he wanted his son ALIVE.Death from the Sea wrote:If you are talking Vader from RotJ, then I have to vote for Maul. In RotJ Vader is old and getting weak, and he was beaten by Luke. Luke had some training but from what we see onscreen he was no whiz with a lighsaber and neither was Vader in RotJ. From what we saw in TPM Maul was IMHO pretty damn good with a saber, he held off two Jedi killing a Master. The fact that Maul was killed by Kenobi is irrelevant, Maul got cocky after killing the more experienced Jedi and let his guard down a bit. Hell even the old Kenobi had sucky sabre skills as seen in ANH. Old age tends affect people that way. Dooku was just good regardless, imagine him in his prime. And Yoda being old and fighting... well he went right back to his walking cane afterward so his fighting was definitely force enhanced.
Now if you take a younger Vader then I could believe him defeating Maul. Just not the RotJ Vader.
Vader was unsteady on his feet breifly after he had his hand chopped and he was breathing quicker after Luke jumped up onto the gantry.Death from the Sea wrote: Um, how about the fact that he was having trouble breathing even before he was hit by the Emperors force lightning and that he had trouble standing back up after his fight with Luke. Even if Vader was holding back during the fight, he still could have force pushed Luke away when Vader fell down. Looke at the time line from Vader had to be in his late 50's or so in RotJ there is no way his endurance could match Maul's.
You mean the Wall of Ignorance?NecronLord wrote:Vader splatters Maul over a wall IMO.
Consider Count Dooku, a human at the ripe old age of eighty. Certainly he did not have any speed problems.Death from the Sea wrote: Um, how about the fact that he was having trouble breathing even before he was hit by the Emperors force lightning and that he had trouble standing back up after his fight with Luke. Even if Vader was holding back during the fight, he still could have force pushed Luke away when Vader fell down. Looke at the time line from Vader had to be in his late 50's or so in RotJ there is no way his endurance could match Maul's.
Welcome newbie to StarDestroyer.net. Your emergency exits are located on your top right hand and left hand corners of the screen. Please read the announcements and follow the guide lines. Watch out for the pokers, and please enjoy your stay.Cæsar Laurentius wrote:Consider Count Dooku, a human at the ripe old age of eighty. Certainly he did not have any speed problems.
Why would Vader, a superior Sith, experience problems in this regard?
Dooku was/is(?) a better swordsman than Vader in his old age, besides if Vader was not feeling his age then he would not have even been able to lose to Luke, he would have been able to stand his ground and not kill Luke at the same time. Face it Vader was not in his prime in RotJ. And think if Dooku was that good when he was eighty(if he was eighty) then imagine how good he was in his prime.Cæsar Laurentius wrote:Consider Count Dooku, a human at the ripe old age of eighty. Certainly he did not have any speed problems.Death from the Sea wrote: Um, how about the fact that he was having trouble breathing even before he was hit by the Emperors force lightning and that he had trouble standing back up after his fight with Luke. Even if Vader was holding back during the fight, he still could have force pushed Luke away when Vader fell down. Looke at the time line from Vader had to be in his late 50's or so in RotJ there is no way his endurance could match Maul's.
Why would Vader, a superior Sith, experience problems in this regard?
Grrr, how many times must the obvious be stated, Vader and the emperor goaded luke into doing what he did at the end of ROTJ, they were not trying to kill him. When he would not be turned then the emperor tried to kill Luke. As to the capabilities of aged Jedi, need I mention Yoda's age at the time of AOTC?Death from the Sea wrote:Dooku was/is(?) a better swordsman than Vader in his old age, besides if Vader was not feeling his age then he would not have even been able to lose to Luke, he would have been able to stand his ground and not kill Luke at the same time. Face it Vader was not in his prime in RotJ. And think if Dooku was that good when he was eighty(if he was eighty) then imagine how good he was in his prime.Cæsar Laurentius wrote:Consider Count Dooku, a human at the ripe old age of eighty. Certainly he did not have any speed problems.Death from the Sea wrote: Um, how about the fact that he was having trouble breathing even before he was hit by the Emperors force lightning and that he had trouble standing back up after his fight with Luke. Even if Vader was holding back during the fight, he still could have force pushed Luke away when Vader fell down. Looke at the time line from Vader had to be in his late 50's or so in RotJ there is no way his endurance could match Maul's.
Why would Vader, a superior Sith, experience problems in this regard?
snip
Even in ANH, before he even knew who Luke was, he had him in his sights but hesitated, allowing Han to sneak up behind him in the Falcon.Defiant wrote:There's nothing in RotJ to indicate that Vader was old and weak, at least physically. Luke was the only one who could defeat Vader. Not because of superior skill (Luke was a novice at best), but because he was Vader's son. Its clear that Vader held back during every confrontation. Even when he cut off Luke's hand in tESB, he was restraining himself, because he wanted his son ALIVE.Death from the Sea wrote:If you are talking Vader from RotJ, then I have to vote for Maul. In RotJ Vader is old and getting weak, and he was beaten by Luke. Luke had some training but from what we see onscreen he was no whiz with a lighsaber and neither was Vader in RotJ. From what we saw in TPM Maul was IMHO pretty damn good with a saber, he held off two Jedi killing a Master. The fact that Maul was killed by Kenobi is irrelevant, Maul got cocky after killing the more experienced Jedi and let his guard down a bit. Hell even the old Kenobi had sucky sabre skills as seen in ANH. Old age tends affect people that way. Dooku was just good regardless, imagine him in his prime. And Yoda being old and fighting... well he went right back to his walking cane afterward so his fighting was definitely force enhanced.
Now if you take a younger Vader then I could believe him defeating Maul. Just not the RotJ Vader.
I dont think the force works like that. Its not like a savings account that can grow with interest. both good and evil exist in equel quantities, what counts is how you use it.MrAnderson wrote:I always figured that Luke's big advantage was the force itself. How long had it been since a Jedi truly drew upon the light side of the force?
It is a huge assumption but I am betting that Luke found a huge pool of the light side waiting for him to tap.
snip.
Ok first off we don't know how old Yoda's species can live to be, Yoda's species could very well live to an average age of 900 so his age is irrelevant. While it might be said he showed some impressive moves in ATOC it was only temporary, as soon as the fight was over he went right back to his walking stick. And you say Vader was goading Luke with Vader intending for Luke to cut his hand off? or do you think Vader wanted Luke to take his place by the Emperors side(killing Vader)? Vader wanted Luke to join him not the Emperor so they could rule as father and son.Stuart Mackey wrote:Grrr, how many times must the obvious be stated, Vader and the emperor goaded luke into doing what he did at the end of ROTJ, they were not trying to kill him. When he would not be turned then the emperor tried to kill Luke. As to the capabilities of aged Jedi, need I mention Yoda's age at the time of AOTC?
He dies at 900 so if that is his species average age then what he did is very remarcable when you consider what a similar aged human can do. This shows that age does not, nessarily, have that much effect on users ability to use the forceDeath from the Sea wrote:Ok first off we don't know how old Yoda's species can live to be, Yoda's species could very well live to an average age of 900 so his age is irrelevant. While it might be said he showed some impressive moves in ATOC it was only temporary, as soon as the fight was over he went right back to his walking stick.Stuart Mackey wrote:Grrr, how many times must the obvious be stated, Vader and the emperor goaded luke into doing what he did at the end of ROTJ, they were not trying to kill him. When he would not be turned then the emperor tried to kill Luke. As to the capabilities of aged Jedi, need I mention Yoda's age at the time of AOTC?
They both had there agenda's, so what?, this is well known. What it show's is that the throne room fight in ROTJ is no mesure of Vaders ability to use the force, given what we know of what the force can do.And you say Vader was goading Luke with Vader intending for Luke to cut his hand off? or do you think Vader wanted Luke to take his place by the Emperors side(killing Vader)? Vader wanted Luke to join him not the Emperor so they could rule as father and son.
Not directly but we do know by the whole idea of the Chosen One that the Force does take some sort of action over time.Stuart Mackey wrote:I dont think the force works like that. Its not like a savings account that can grow with interest. both good and evil exist in equel quantities, what counts is how you use it.MrAnderson wrote:I always figured that Luke's big advantage was the force itself. How long had it been since a Jedi truly drew upon the light side of the force?
It is a huge assumption but I am betting that Luke found a huge pool of the light side waiting for him to tap.
snip.