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The Executor-class seems to have the firepower of around a dozen Imperator-class Mark I Star Destroyers.

Going by AOTC: Incredible Cross Sections values for the Acclamator and ISD1 BDZ requirements, combined with Saxton's HTL estimates for the Executor, the Executor should be capable of firing 7680 Teratons from all of its HTLs at once.

If you can guessestimate how much of its reactor output a carrier/commandship like the Executor dedicates to its primary weapons, can you figure the reactor size of the Executor?

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The Executor-class seems to have the firepower of around a dozen Imperator-class Mark I Star Destroyers.

Going by AOTC: Incredible Cross Sections values for the Acclamator and ISD1 BDZ requirements, combined with Saxton's HTL estimates for the Executor, the Executor should be capable of firing 7680 Teratons from all of its HTLs at once.

If you can guessestimate how much of its reactor output a carrier/commandship like the Executor dedicates to its primary weapons, can you figure the reactor size of the Executor?

No need to get that involved: ESB novel specifically says it is 5 times as powerful as an ISD. Hence the start of the 5 mile fallacy. So my guess is that the main reactor of the Executor would be 1.25E25 watts. But then you need to figure in the secondary reactors for the engines. I'd say it's about 1.3E25 watts total. Which would put it's shields at 774 teratons.

Note that once I get the information on the TF coreship or ever hear back from Saxton, this would need to be revised.

Ands I'd like to know what definition you are using for a BDZ, since assuming earth type planet, 1 shot per second from each gun, nothing comes close to 2.4 TT a shot. They are all well below that, or way the fuck above that.

What timeframe for the BDZ are you using?

Also, even if we disregard the ESB statement and try it your way, it's still no good: Weapons take up a miniscule portion of the total reactor power. Something like 10% going by the Acclamator. You'd end up underballing it by atleast an order of magnitude.

We figured an Acclamator alpha strike is 9.6 TT.

It can accomplish a BDZ in ~10 hours. Figuring an ISD1 must perform the same operation in 1/10 the time, its Alpha Strike must be 10 x as powerful.

However, the most firepower can only be from broadsides in the ISD1.

Thus the broadsides for a BDZ must be equal to 3 double HTLs + 1 quad brim trench HTL.

That's 6 shots (2 barrels for each of 3 turrets) + 4 shots (barrels of brim trench HTL) for 10 HTLs.

Each shot must be equal to at least 9.6 teratons, assuming the ISD's Alpha Strike is an order of magnitude larger.

Since each shot is 9.6 teratons, and Saxton extrapolates ~400 ISD2 HTL turrets, even though the ISD2 HTL turret is more powerful than the ISD1 turret, I rounded down and used the ISD1 turret value.

9.6 TT per shot x 2 shots for each barrel in a double turret x 400 turrets = 7680 Teratons for a full strike from the entire dorsal face (assuming no other heavy weapons of consequence on the dorsal face and none on the ventral).

Since the Acclamator is dedicated to being a troopship, and the Executor is an undergunned carrier, I think 10% is a good estimate.

1.1 x 7680 (.1 for all other guns and anything missed regarding weapons) = 8448 TT.

8848 = 10% of total reactor output. Total Reactor Output = 88,480 Teratons. All in less than one second, assuming, of course, the Executor can fire all of its weapons at once.

88.48 billion megatons per 1/15 second (IIRC the duration of TL pulses). 4.42E25 Watts.

Points:

1) Extrapolating like that for the ISDs weapons is inherently error prone. A calc is more accurate. I have built a spreadsheet calculator on BDZing, I can give you the yields for different ships if you want them.

2) You are incorrect about the broadside. You are thinking 2 dimensionally. The ISD can invert or roll, bringing more HTL batteries to bear.

3) You are using the Guns on an ISD1 as the same as the guns on the Executor class, when that does not work. Saxton says that those are ISD2 type HTLs, which are smaller and have 8 barrels, not 2. thus your total firepower from the Executor would go up. I'm aware I made the same mistake in another thread, I found out my error the other day when researching canon weapons counts for my BDZ calculator.

4) The ISD2 turret is NOT more powerful then the ISD1 turret. The reverse is true. The ISD 1 turret is something like 20X more powerful.

5) Your math is jacked up. If 8848 TT is 10% of the main reactor, then the main reactor would be 3.6E26 watts, not 6.648E23 watts. Well above what ESB indicates it should be.

I have a few thoughts on how to hammer out a new formula. The thing is that while My current one works for the DS and Acclamator, I dont think it works on the TF coreship. More disturbingly, the power densities are all over the place, when they should be constant. I have a few ideas on new methods to try to hammer out a better formula, but that will have to wait until comp and finals are finished.

If anyone can get the following information:
Full scaling on the ISD main reactor in ICS
Scaling of the ISD supplemental reactos in ICS
Full scaling of the Acclamator reactor in AOTC ICS
Scaling of the TF coreship reactor
Scaling of the reaction in the TF coreship reactor (IIRC is is shown)
Scaling of the reactor part of an X wing engine
Scaling of the reactor on a TIE fighter
Scaling of the reactor bulb on an Eclipse class
Scaling on the beactor bulb on a Sovereign class
Sclaing of the reactor bulb on an Allegience class (Christ I hope official gives that a better name, like Mauler class or something)

If anyone could get part of, or all of that for me, I would be most grateful.

Ender wrote:2) You are incorrect about the broadside. You are thinking 2 dimensionally. The ISD can invert or roll, bringing more HTL batteries to bear.

The ISD1 barrels cannot traverse vertically enough to have a full dorsal face HTL fire. They are too close together and all the same elevation, so they cannnot all fire forward. The greatest concentration of guns in the ISD1 is the post/starboard broadside. On the ISD2, it is a full ventral firing of all the HTL turrets.

Ender wrote:3) You are using the Guns on an ISD1 as the same as the guns on the Executor class, when that does not work. Saxton says that those are ISD2 type HTLs, which are smaller and have 8 barrels, not 2. thus your total firepower from the Executor would go up. I'm aware I made the same mistake in another thread, I found out my error the other day when researching canon weapons counts for my BDZ calculator.

While the octuple HTL ISD2 turrets are more powerful than the double HTL ISD1 turrets, I did specify I was rounding down.

I am unsure as to the proportion of firepower from the double ISD1 turret to the octuple ISD2 turret. HDS probably has a ratio unfortunately derived from WEG, but each of the octuple turrets' barrels are not equal to the barrels of the ISD1 turrets.

The total firepower of an ISD2 dorsal turret is greater than the ISD1 dorsal turret, but the relation between firepower is deeper thans simply the number of barrels in the turret. Like I said, the best idea is to go to WEG firepower estimates for the ISD1 vs. estimates for the ISD2 and use that as a ratio.

Ender wrote:4) The ISD2 turret is NOT more powerful then the ISD1 turret. The reverse is true. The ISD 1 turret is something like 20X more powerful.

Evidence? There was a lengthy debate on this subject, and the ISDII is nearly universally said to be more powerful than the ISD1 turret.

Ender wrote:5) Your math is jacked up. If 8848 TT is 10% of the main reactor, then the main reactor would be 3.6E26 watts, not 6.648E23 watts. Well above what ESB indicates it should be.

My mistake. Although, according to the number of ISDII turrets on the Executor model, which is in-movie, and more canon than an off-hand comment in the novelisation about the grandeur of the Executor.

I still think if we can get a good estimate based on its proportionally greater firepower compared to the ISD from the number of turrets, we'll be more accurate than the 5 x as powerful statement.

The shields appear to be around 5 x as powerful or so, but the firepower is much greater. And the ISD (esp. the ISDII, according to most official sources) is much more of a ship-to-ship combat vessel than the Executor, which dedicates most of its volume to troopship/carrier duties. The massive hangar and the extensive internal structure revealed in Rebel Assault II suggest this, as does the fact that is mounts weak shields in proportion to its size and only destroyer-level guns.

Ender wrote:I have a few thoughts on how to hammer out a new formula. The thing is that while My current one works for the DS and Acclamator, I dont think it works on the TF coreship. More disturbingly, the power densities are all over the place, when they should be constant. I have a few ideas on new methods to try to hammer out a better formula, but that will have to wait until comp and finals are finished.

Indeed. We really need more front-line warships. I know I want a new Saxton OT ICS (or ICS's).

Personally, I'm most interested in firepower/shielding/reactor figures for the Executor, based on canon evidence alone, to give an idea of what is realistic in regards to numerous ECCS battles in the EU. I'm also interested in what kind of a vessel (reactor wise) could hold its own and outgun an ECCS in the forward arc with a broadside and survive.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:The ISD1 barrels cannot traverse vertically enough to have a full dorsal face HTL fire. They are too close together and all the same elevation, so they cannnot all fire forward. The greatest concentration of guns in the ISD1 is the post/starboard broadside. On the ISD2, it is a full ventral firing of all the HTL turrets.

Evidence? I remember reading a thing on ASVS that detailed exactly how a BDZ should be conducted based upon the placement and strength of the guns. One of the big details was that it could invert and bring all dorsal guns to bear.

Evidence? There was a lengthy debate on this subject, and the ISDII is nearly universally said to be more powerful than the ISD1 turret.

Simple math. Per barrel, the ISD1 turrets are 20x more powerful. I can Email you the speadsheet if you would like.

Ender wrote:I have a few thoughts on how to hammer out a new formula. The thing is that while My current one works for the DS and Acclamator, I dont think it works on the TF coreship. More disturbingly, the power densities are all over the place, when they should be constant. I have a few ideas on new methods to try to hammer out a better formula, but that will have to wait until comp and finals are finished.

Indeed. We really need more front-line warships. I know I want a new Saxton OT ICS (or ICS's).[/quote]I want a new book consisting of 6 view schematics and a detailed history and description of all the Triangle ships in the Empire, the SDs of the NR, and the precursors to the ISD type (design lineage, from the appearance of a TFB through to an Eclipse)

Personally, I'm most interested in firepower/shielding/reactor figures for the Executor, based on canon evidence alone, to give an idea of what is realistic in regards to numerous ECCS battles in the EU. I'm also interested in what kind of a vessel (reactor wise) could hold its own and outgun an ECCS in the forward arc with a broadside and survive.

I need more information for that, but I'm working on it

Ender wrote:Evidence? I remember reading a thing on ASVS that detailed exactly how a BDZ should be conducted based upon the placement and strength of the guns. One of the big details was that it could invert and bring all dorsal guns to bear.

Check your SWICS and look. The barrels can't traverse up that far. The ISDII's can, and the ISDII can invert and fire all of its turrets at any target.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/Xbradford/ISD_Guns.jpg

Ender wrote:Simple math. Per barrel, the ISD1 turrets are 20x more powerful. I can Email you the speadsheet if you would like.

I'd like that regardless.

I don't contest that the ISD1's HTL turrets are more powerful, but the ISDII's turrets overall (as in all the barrels) are supposed to be more powerful than a whole ISD1 turret.

Previous Debate on Subject

Ender wrote:I need more information for that, but I'm working on it

Sounds good.

Dude, it's a spreadsheet, which means it's an attachment. I can't use the boards functions to send it. So if you want that, I'd need you to PM me and email addy.