StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Vexx wrote:Han says the Falcon is capable of ".5 past lightspeed". Lightspeed is about 300,000,000 meters per second.. 300,000 km per second.. 1,080,000,000 km/h. God damn that's fast. The falcon would be 1,620,000,000 km/h.

(Of course I assume he wasn't talking about Hyperspeed)

.5 as in it takes .5 days to cross the galaxy.

Anyway, in the NJO, starfighters routinely make near c maneuvers. While 25 years earlier, they didn't. Is there an explanation of this?

YT300000 wrote:

Vexx wrote:Han says the Falcon is capable of ".5 past lightspeed". Lightspeed is about 300,000,000 meters per second.. 300,000 km per second.. 1,080,000,000 km/h. God damn that's fast. The falcon would be 1,620,000,000 km/h.

(Of course I assume he wasn't talking about Hyperspeed)

.5 as in it takes .5 days to cross the galaxy.

It's just ".5 past lightspeed".

Your guess is bullshit as much as his is.

Moral of the story: Don't make up shit.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

YT300000 wrote:

Vexx wrote:Han says the Falcon is capable of ".5 past lightspeed". Lightspeed is about 300,000,000 meters per second.. 300,000 km per second.. 1,080,000,000 km/h. God damn that's fast. The falcon would be 1,620,000,000 km/h.

(Of course I assume he wasn't talking about Hyperspeed)

.5 as in it takes .5 days to cross the galaxy.

It's just ".5 past lightspeed".

Your guess is bullshit as much as his is.

Moral of the story: Don't make up shit.

Well, the Falcon crossed half the galaxy in a couple hours, so I think 12 hours should be sufficient to cross the whole galaxy. I'll make shit up if it makes sense.

YT300000 wrote:Anyway, in the NJO, starfighters routinely make near c maneuvers. While 25 years earlier, they didn't. Is there an explanation of this?

Possibly because 25 years earlier, heavy jamming was employed during combat. In NJO, the Yuuzhan Vong do not employ effective jamming, nor can traditional jamming affect Vong sensors. Basically, now they're fighting in a jamming-free environment, sensors capable of working without any significant hinderence.

So anyone care to comment on whether the acceleration seen prior to jump to lightspeed is a special level of acceleration which is a byproduct of hyperdrive functionality, or is it the normal level of acceleration of capital ships (~ 30 km/s^2 as postulated by Mr. Wong)?

YT300000 wrote:Anyway, in the NJO, starfighters routinely make near c maneuvers. While 25 years earlier, they didn't. Is there an explanation of this?

For an "in-universe" explanation, Mad's is as good as any, but for "out-universe", I would guess that for the OT, it had to do with the technological limitations of special effects of the time that they were made and for the PT, it is difficult to depict (i.e. so that the audience can follow) rapid movement without resorting to "bullet time" type effects, of which I guess GL is not a big fan.

The Mandalorian Armor mentions Fett removing the deceleration phase from his ship through some expensive modifications and fine tuning. IMHO it's just part of the Hyperdrive.

YT300000 wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

YT300000 wrote:.5 as in it takes .5 days to cross the galaxy.

It's just ".5 past lightspeed".

Your guess is bullshit as much as his is.

Moral of the story: Don't make up shit.

Well, the Falcon crossed half the galaxy in a couple hours, so I think 12 hours should be sufficient to cross the whole galaxy. I'll make shit up if it makes sense.

And I'll call bullshit when I see it in practice. The idea that a Hyperdrive rating equals the fraction of a standard day it takes to travel across the Galaxy is quite idiotic, and frankly an insult to logic and reasoning. What you are engaging in is lazy reasoning.

Spanky the Dolphin wrote:And I'll call bullshit when I see it in practice. The idea that a Hyperdrive rating equals the fraction of a standard day it takes to travel across the Galaxy is quite idiotic, and frankly an insult to logic and reasoning. What you are engaging in is lazy reasoning.

Yes, it is lazy reasoning. But how is it idiotic, and an insult to logic and reasoning?

Becuase it's lazy reasoning and something you just pulled out of your ass. It makes no sense and you gave no thought to such whatsoever.

Frankly, it looks like you just vomited it out in hopes that it would seem that you were productively participating in the discussion.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Becuase it's lazy reasoning and something you just pulled out of your ass. You gave no thought to it whatsoever, and that is why it's insulting.

I gave about 5 minutes of thought to it.

Note: The following is a re-enactment.

Hmmm, a few hours to cross a third of the galaxy (Tatooine to Alderaan). Lets factor in a few hours if the course plotted is a little worse or whatnot. Thats about 12 hours. 12 * 2 = 24

1 day = 24 hours, so a hyperdrive rating of 1 = ~ 24 hours

Hmmm, that seems about right.

Ehh... this might sound a bit stupid...

Could it be that the speed we see is because the ship was 'sucked' into hyperspace when the hyperspace engines are engaged, and is a side-effect generated when a ship makes the jump? Seems like I'm plucking this out of thin-air.

Oh, I doubt the 'lightspeed' in .5 lightspeed really meant lightspeed. Even if travelling at 10 or 100 times the speed of light, it would still take forever to travel 'halfway across the galaxy' in a lifetime.
So... we shouldn't take 'lightspeed' seriously.

Anyway... if we had a camera outside while something is travelling at warp of hyperspeed, how much would we be able to see... since light can't catch up and be captured by the cam? Or am I greatly mistaken here?

E.D.C.P

Emperor Palpatine wrote:Could it be that the speed we see is because the ship was 'sucked' into hyperspace when the hyperspace engines are engaged, and is a side-effect generated when a ship makes the jump? Seems like I'm plucking this out of thin-air.

Not really. The quoted I gave from Isard's Revenge shows that the engines are required to accelerate the ship to the proper speed for a jump. It appears that the mega acceleration is assisted by the hypedrive, however.

Emperor Palpatine wrote: Or am I greatly mistaken here?

That is probably the case. Warping hyperspace? We have no idea if that would work, or even if it did, what would happen to the ship that tried it.

Vexx wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:Vexx, just out of curiosity, why don't you write figures in scientific notation?

Easier for me to understand with a bunch of zeros.

Man you people need to stop being so defensive. Sheesh.

There's no way anyone will ever take your physics seriously if you don't use scientific notation. It's the way the scientific and engineering world works, like it or not. I wouldn't have read past the first line of calculus in Mike's webpage if he didn't use proper mathematical language.

Supreme_Warlord wrote:So anyone care to comment on whether the acceleration seen prior to jump to lightspeed is a special level of acceleration which is a byproduct of hyperdrive functionality, or is it the normal level of acceleration of capital ships (~ 30 km/s^2 as postulated by Mr. Wong)?

Frank bitterhof has a theory that the hyperdrive consists of a two stage engine,and the initial phase of the jump to hyperdrive is supplied by "sublight" engines,a engine seperate from the ion drive.MW doesn't agree,but I'm got convinced by his supporting evidence.Key fact:Han said to cut in the sublight drive in ANH,yet,the ion drive was already glowing.

PainRack wrote:

Supreme_Warlord wrote:So anyone care to comment on whether the acceleration seen prior to jump to lightspeed is a special level of acceleration which is a byproduct of hyperdrive functionality, or is it the normal level of acceleration of capital ships (~ 30 km/s^2 as postulated by Mr. Wong)?

Frank bitterhof has a theory that the hyperdrive consists of a two stage engine,and the initial phase of the jump to hyperdrive is supplied by "sublight" engines,a engine seperate from the ion drive.MW doesn't agree,but I'm got convinced by his supporting evidence.Key fact:Han said to cut in the sublight drive in ANH,yet,the ion drive was already glowing.

The only reason I ask is becasue to me, it seems that the acceleration produced during the jump to lightspeed is far higher than the normal levels of acceleration seen in the films.

Having said that however, I have no calculations to base this on as I have niether the equipment nor the mathematical skills to perform a comparative acceleration analysis.

Assuming for the moment that the above is true, I was curious as to why this level of acceleration is not seen all the time during normal flight and combat manoeuvers.

PainRack wrote:

Supreme_Warlord wrote:So anyone care to comment on whether the acceleration seen prior to jump to lightspeed is a special level of acceleration which is a byproduct of hyperdrive functionality, or is it the normal level of acceleration of capital ships (~ 30 km/s^2 as postulated by Mr. Wong)?

Frank bitterhof has a theory that the hyperdrive consists of a two stage engine,and the initial phase of the jump to hyperdrive is supplied by "sublight" engines,a engine seperate from the ion drive.MW doesn't agree,but I'm got convinced by his supporting evidence.Key fact:Han said to cut in the sublight drive in ANH,yet,the ion drive was already glowing.

He said "cut to sublight drives" as in, switching from hyperdrive to ion engines as the means of the Falcon's propulsion. You're splitting hairs.

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

PainRack wrote:

Supreme_Warlord wrote:So anyone care to comment on whether the acceleration seen prior to jump to lightspeed is a special level of acceleration which is a byproduct of hyperdrive functionality, or is it the normal level of acceleration of capital ships (~ 30 km/s^2 as postulated by Mr. Wong)?

Frank bitterhof has a theory that the hyperdrive consists of a two stage engine,and the initial phase of the jump to hyperdrive is supplied by "sublight" engines,a engine seperate from the ion drive.MW doesn't agree,but I'm got convinced by his supporting evidence.Key fact:Han said to cut in the sublight drive in ANH,yet,the ion drive was already glowing.

He said "cut to sublight drives" as in, switching from hyperdrive to ion engines as the means of the Falcon's propulsion. You're splitting hairs.

Cut in the sublight drive as in engage sublight drive.Yet,how does one turn on the sublight drive when its already on?

Of course,this merely serves as a sidedish to the key factor.TESB radio drama states that the Anoat-Bespin trip was made via sublight.We can't get around that canon quote.

Its reasonable to agree that "sublight" in the SWU refers to slower than hyperspace,rather than slower than light due to the colloqial usuage of hyperspace speeds as "lightspeed".And its also reasonable to suggest that the mechanism that deccelerates SW ships after exiting from hyperspace is also termed "sublight" drive,as their speeds and acceleration are "sublight".

Illuminatus Primus wrote:

PainRack wrote:

Supreme_Warlord wrote:So anyone care to comment on whether the acceleration seen prior to jump to lightspeed is a special level of acceleration which is a byproduct of hyperdrive functionality, or is it the normal level of acceleration of capital ships (~ 30 km/s^2 as postulated by Mr. Wong)?

Frank bitterhof has a theory that the hyperdrive consists of a two stage engine,and the initial phase of the jump to hyperdrive is supplied by "sublight" engines,a engine seperate from the ion drive.MW doesn't agree,but I'm got convinced by his supporting evidence.Key fact:Han said to cut in the sublight drive in ANH,yet,the ion drive was already glowing.

He said "cut to sublight drives" as in, switching from hyperdrive to ion engines as the means of the Falcon's propulsion. You're splitting hairs.

I have to agree with IP. I don't seem to recall there ever being any indication of three types of engines (excluding repulsorlifts) on SW ships. In fact visuals indicate that there are only two types - hyperdrive and sublight.

I agree with IP. The only 3 engines I've seen in ships and their designs are: Repulsor lift, Sublight Ion, and Hyperdrive. In, I think its ANH, Han accelerates via Ion engine, then throws the throttle for the Hyperdrive to kick in to get them into hyperspace.

PainRack wrote:Cut in the sublight drive as in engage sublight drive.Yet,how does one turn on the sublight drive when its already on?

Of course,this merely serves as a sidedish to the key factor.TESB radio drama states that the Anoat-Bespin trip was made via sublight.We can't get around that canon quote.

Its reasonable to agree that "sublight" in the SWU refers to slower than hyperspace,rather than slower than light due to the colloqial usuage of hyperspace speeds as "lightspeed".And its also reasonable to suggest that the mechanism that deccelerates SW ships after exiting from hyperspace is also termed "sublight" drive,as their speeds and acceleration are "sublight".

I try to forget when you support these patently idiotic ideas.

Fine "cut in the sublight drives"--whatever. That doesn't prove that there's a "sublight" and ion engine seperately.

Occam's Razor. The most plausable explanation is the engines are given a warm-up sequence of sorts before they start uselessly firing relativistic streams of matter while still in hyperspace.

You're adding an unnecessary and useless third mechanism, one that's unsupported by anything save your warping of tiny little scraps of possibly twistable dialogue, in perfect Trekkie fashion.

Ion Drives are sublight drives. They are even refered to as such before. Your crackpot proposal doesn't override description. The end.

Illuminatus Primus wrote: I try to forget when you support these patently idiotic ideas.

Fine "cut in the sublight drives"--whatever. That doesn't prove that there's a "sublight" and ion engine seperately.

Occam's Razor. The most plausable explanation is the engines are given a warm-up sequence of sorts before they start uselessly firing relativistic streams of matter while still in hyperspace.

You're adding an unnecessary and useless third mechanism, one that's unsupported by anything save your warping of tiny little scraps of possibly twistable dialogue, in perfect Trekkie fashion.

Ion Drives are sublight drives. They are even refered to as such before. Your crackpot proposal doesn't override description. The end.

And did I say that Ion drives are not sublight drives?What I'm arguing for is that another mechanism,that may be an intricate part of the hyperdrive system itself is termed "sublight" drive,and that this "drive" is the one responsible for the acceleration in the first stage of the entry into hyperspace.


Since you want to quote science,answer me this.
Is there any model of the Ion drive,of the size of those present on the Rebel ships capable of performing the decceleration seen?
Considering the awesome use of fuel that will be involved,ships will be limited to an extremely limited number of jumps before the need to refuel.Yet,why do we not see this phemonena?The ISD is supposed to be capable of carrying 3 years worth of supplies on board.Can this be feasible,if the mechanism for deccelerating/accelerating the ship is indeed the humble Ion drive?


Last but not least,how,will you get around the canon quote of the Millenium Falcon making the interstellar trip from Anoat to Bespin via sublight?

Illuminatus Primus wrote: I try to forget when you support these patently idiotic ideas.

Fine "cut in the sublight drives"--whatever. That doesn't prove that there's a "sublight" and ion engine seperately.

Occam's Razor. The most plausable explanation is the engines are given a warm-up sequence of sorts before they start uselessly firing relativistic streams of matter while still in hyperspace.

You're adding an unnecessary and useless third mechanism, one that's unsupported by anything save your warping of tiny little scraps of possibly twistable dialogue, in perfect Trekkie fashion.

Ion Drives are sublight drives. They are even refered to as such before. Your crackpot proposal doesn't override description. The end.

And did I say that Ion drives are not sublight drives?Any propulsion system that is below the speeds achieved in hyperspace is "sublight".

What I'm arguing for is that another mechanism,that may be an intricate part of the hyperdrive system itself is termed "sublight" drive,and that this "drive" is the one responsible for the acceleration in the first stage of the entry into hyperspace.


Since you want to quote science,answer me this.
Is there any model of the Ion drive,of the size of those present on the Rebel ships capable of performing the decceleration seen?
Considering the awesome use of fuel that will be involved,ships will be limited to an extremely limited number of jumps before the need to refuel.Yet,why do we not see this phemonena?The ISD is supposed to be capable of carrying 3 years worth of supplies on board.Can this be feasible,if the mechanism for deccelerating/accelerating the ship is indeed the humble Ion drive?

Last but not least,how,will you get around the canon quote of the Millenium Falcon making the interstellar trip from Anoat to Bespin via sublight?