Question for all JWs!

Hethrir · Post by **Hethrir** » 2003-09-13 09:38pm

apocolypse wrote:It's not true...my mom is a JW, and she's married to a non-JW. AFAIK, it's not considered a good idea, but it's not outlawed or anything either. And Jawa, the thing w/ the non-JW's not being allowed in the church isn't true, unless you have some sort of extremist branch or some shit? I've never heard of it, and a lot of my family is involved in the religion.

I imagine that your mums branch was very liberal. You're right about them being able to do it, but at the same time, I have the ability to murder and steal as well, but I don't.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-13 09:42pm

Enigma wrote:But JWs are not forced to stick with other JWs but it generally accepted. A JW can go ahead and date a non JW but it would be frowned upon by others.

Could you elaborate on what it means to be "frowned upon"? Are we talking about people whispering behind your back, or are we talking about a full-blown shunning?

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-09-13 09:43pm

As best as I know, it's strongly discouraged but not forbidden. It is required that there be a chaperone along on any dates, however. Other than that, I don't know much, since I've only known one JW, and she was in one class with me five years ago in high school.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2003-09-14 12:27am

Darth Wong wrote:
Enigma wrote:But JWs are not forced to stick with other JWs but it generally accepted. A JW can go ahead and date a non JW but it would be frowned upon by others.
Could you elaborate on what it means to be "frowned upon"? Are we talking about people whispering behind your back, or are we talking about a full-blown shunning?

No and no.

You'd might be talked to by the elders but at most that would happen would be a temporary loss of priviledges (such as commenting at the meetings and door to door ministry). But no one is forced out by marrying a non-JW. To be honest, I do not know any JW that have married a non-JW, after they've converted. Before yes, after no.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-14 01:07am

Enigma wrote:You'd might be talked to by the elders but at most that would happen would be a temporary loss of priviledges (such as commenting at the meetings and door to door ministry). But no one is forced out by marrying a non-JW. To be honest, I do not know any JW that have married a non-JW, after they've converted. Before yes, after no.

OK, so they call you on the carpet, give you a dressing-down, and penalize you. That's pretty harsh. So in other words, you're saying that this guy is on the level when he says that he can only date other JWs, right?

6 billion people in the world, of which 6 million are JWs. Doesn't it seem like a bad idea for a guy who already has such slim chances to restrict himself to literally one out of a thousand possible prospects?

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2003-09-14 01:22am

--I've known serveral JW's as personal friends and I can tell you that dating outside of JW's is not an option if you are a JW. The JW's are not like the catholic church where you can reject significant beliefs/rules and still call yourself a catholic without objection from the church.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-09-14 01:23am

Wow, if I knew a guy like this I'd fuck with him all the time. If he eats 10 eggs 4 potatos manase milkshake thinking he'll bulk up, I'd have a lot of fun. Starting first with mild radiation at you genitals will intesify orgasisms, so when he sterylizes himself, atleast he'll never be able to spawn children. And by that I mean sperm donation.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2003-09-14 02:23pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Enigma wrote:You'd might be talked to by the elders but at most that would happen would be a temporary loss of priviledges (such as commenting at the meetings and door to door ministry). But no one is forced out by marrying a non-JW. To be honest, I do not know any JW that have married a non-JW, after they've converted. Before yes, after no.
OK, so they call you on the carpet, give you a dressing-down, and penalize you. That's pretty harsh. So in other words, you're saying that this guy is on the level when he says that he can only date other JWs, right?

6 billion people in the world, of which 6 million are JWs. Doesn't it seem like a bad idea for a guy who already has such slim chances to restrict himself to literally one out of a thousand possible prospects?

No. You'd be talked to by one or two elders about the consequences of such action. There is no "dressing down", unless a serious error has been committed. As for the temporary removal of priviledges, it happens because what that person has done is out of step with the bible principles.

And yes what that guy said is on the level.

As for the prospects of finding a marriage mate, he'll first have to straighten himself out and go "congregation hopping". He could go from one congregation to another and make new friends. Along the way he might find someone he likes. Really it isn't too hard for a male JW to hook up with a female JW (and vice versa). It didn't take too long for my sister and my brother to find a marriage mate.

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-09-14 03:45pm

Enigma is right. But I've never heard of a person losing commenting or field service priviledges over dating or marrying a non-witness. As far as I know, there is nothing you can do that would make you unable to engage in field ministry.

However, it would prevent you from certain advancement opportunities. Any position that requires exemplary behavior, such as elder, ministerial servant, pioneer, etc would be unavailable, and if someone was serving in this capacity, they'd have to step down. Its rare for an elder or servant to be effected by this, not so much for female pioneers, for reasons that will become obvious.

Dating outside the congregation is fairly common, especially among the young, although there is much handwringing about this. When it comes time to settle down, if a person decides to remain a witness, then they usually pick a fellow witness for the reasons Enigma outlines. Unfortunately women outnumber men something like 5:1. The math experts here can spot the problem with this policy, so its become increasingly common for women to poach off the range, so to speak.

About the loser guy, I would say that someone with an already low sense of self, and sense of self-esteem would tend to make out any counseling by an elder to be a bigger deal than it is, so it would probably be accurate to say that this poor guy thinks that dating outside the organization is right out for him.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2003-09-14 09:04pm

aronkerkhof wrote:Enigma is right. But I've never heard of a person losing commenting or field service priviledges over dating or marrying a non-witness. As far as I know, there is nothing you can do that would make you unable to engage in field ministry. <snip>

I was just guessing on that part since I haven't heard about any JW dating or marrying a non JW.

But I do know that is a JW commits a serious error and is truly repentant then that person wouldn't be disfellowshipped but removed of all priviledges including field service.

Lt. Dan · Post by **Lt. Dan** » 2003-09-14 09:44pm

Darth Wong wrote:I remember when his idea of a square meal was to hard-boil 10 eggs, mix them in with about a half-jar of mayonnaise and 3 or 4 baked potatoes, add milk, mash all of this shit together in a large blender, and then drink the resulting horrifying concoction.

I wish I was making this up, but I'm not.

Oh my... That is nasty. Holy crap. I'm gonna ralph just by reading that.

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-09-14 09:59pm

But I do know that is a JW commits a serious error and is truly repentant then that person wouldn't be disfellowshipped but removed of all priviledges including field service.

Are you sure about that? Ask your elders. My understanding was and is that since the minstry is a command from Jesus, no one has any business telling a person to not engage in it. This would go double for someone who isn't even expelled from the congregation, but is merely counseled or reproved.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-09-15 12:31am

Since I see nothing from one of the Sisterhood in this thread, let me state a woman's take on this guy:

He's fat, prolly ugly, and not worth a second look at, except as to point out to children as a bad example.

If I was JW, I'd 'poach off the range' before even considering anything remoltly romantic with this guy.

Man-boobs and fatty thighs... Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-15 01:16am

aronkerkhof wrote:Dating outside the congregation is fairly common, especially among the young, although there is much handwringing about this. When it comes time to settle down, if a person decides to remain a witness, then they usually pick a fellow witness for the reasons Enigma outlines. Unfortunately women outnumber men something like 5:1. The math experts here can spot the problem with this policy, so its become increasingly common for women to poach off the range, so to speak.

Why is there such a high ratio of females to males?

About the loser guy, I would say that someone with an already low sense of self, and sense of self-esteem would tend to make out any counseling by an elder to be a bigger deal than it is, so it would probably be accurate to say that this poor guy thinks that dating outside the organization is right out for him.

His chances of getting a date are pretty low no matter what he does, which is why I find it so shocking that he would limit his opportunities. But that makes sense; he might be easily cowed by what he perceives as authority figures (although it should be noted that my brother showed him various sources of dietary advice that clearly indicated the stupidity of his insane "30 eggs a day with mayo and potatoes" super protein/carbo meal plan, and he ignored them until he started suffering serious health problems).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-09-15 01:20am

LadyTevar wrote:Since I see nothing from one of the Sisterhood in this thread, let me state a woman's take on this guy:

He's fat, prolly ugly, and not worth a second look at, except as to point out to children as a bad example.

He once grumbled that when he and my brother are in public together at rock concerts and clubs and such (not that this happens much any more since he joined the Witnesses), the girls talk to my brother rather than him. I didn't say anything, but I was soooo tempted to ...

If I was JW, I'd 'poach off the range' before even considering anything remoltly romantic with this guy.

Man-boobs and fatty thighs... Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

The consensus among myself, my brother, Rebecca, and Adam (another guy who's familiar with this case) is that he will die a virgin, and that he will try to rationalize it as voluntary celibacy for the sake of devoting himself entirely to the ministry.

aronkerkhof · Post by **aronkerkhof** » 2003-09-15 11:23am

Why is there such a high ratio of females to males?

That is an excellent question. I don't have any answers, but I have theories. One is that the message may appeal to women more so than men. Another is that women are still even in this day and age at home more one the average than men, so they are exposed to the message more often. It is not at all uncommon for a women to bring herself and her children in the congregation, while her husband/boyfriend/SO does not.

Finally, even though the witnesses have a male-centered hierarchy, there is still far more room for advancement and personal involvement for women in a witness congregation than in most North American protestant religions. Women can engage in ministry, women can comment at public meetings, women can perform parts from the public platform, etc and for the most part are actually encouraged to do this.

But these are just guesses.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-09-15 01:25pm

Not to go off-topic, but I haven`t met very many women who weren`t at least a little religious. Is this a general trend, or is it just me?

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-09-15 02:03pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Not to go off-topic, but I haven`t met very many women who weren`t at least a little religious. Is this a general trend, or is it just me?

I think women just like touchy-feely stuff like that more then most men do.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2003-09-15 06:02pm

aronkerkhof wrote:
But I do know that is a JW commits a serious error and is truly repentant then that person wouldn't be disfellowshipped but removed of all priviledges including field service.
Are you sure about that? Ask your elders. My understanding was and is that since the minstry is a command from Jesus, no one has any business telling a person to not engage in it. This would go double for someone who isn't even expelled from the congregation, but is merely counseled or reproved.

It has happened in a couple of congregations that I've been to.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2003-09-15 06:05pm

Darth Wong wrote:
LadyTevar wrote:Since I see nothing from one of the Sisterhood in this thread, let me state a woman's take on this guy:

He's fat, prolly ugly, and not worth a second look at, except as to point out to children as a bad example.
He once grumbled that when he and my brother are in public together at rock concerts and clubs and such (not that this happens much any more since he joined the Witnesses), the girls talk to my brother rather than him. I didn't say anything, but I was soooo tempted to ...
If I was JW, I'd 'poach off the range' before even considering anything remoltly romantic with this guy.

Man-boobs and fatty thighs... Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
The consensus among myself, my brother, Rebecca, and Adam (another guy who's familiar with this case) is that he will die a virgin, and that he will try to rationalize it as voluntary celibacy for the sake of devoting himself entirely to the ministry.

Get him to either have you or your brother help him get into shape. Or just simply lose weight. I'm sure that once he's in his normal weight range that women will take notice of him. *shrugs*

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-09-15 06:10pm

Enigma wrote: Get him to either have you or your brother help him get into shape. Or just simply lose weight. I'm sure that once he's in his normal weight range that women will take notice of him. *shrugs*

Don't count on it.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2003-09-15 06:13pm

LadyTevar wrote:
Enigma wrote: Get him to either have you or your brother help him get into shape. Or just simply lose weight. I'm sure that once he's in his normal weight range that women will take notice of him. *shrugs*
Don't count on it.

It might work if he lost considerable weight and visited other congregations. That is unless he's butt ugly to begin with.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-09-15 06:14pm

Enigma wrote: It might work if he lost considerable weight and visited other congregations. That is unless he's butt ugly to begin with.

That's the general idea I'm getting from Wong. The guy's ugly and has a bad personality to match.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-09-15 09:34pm

5-1 ratio eh? I think I need to crash a watchtower...

Back to the Mr. Man-boobs issue: I hear Michael Jackson was once, or still is, a JW. Perhaps we should get Mr. Plastic and Mr. Anal Leakage together. They might go for it...

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2003-09-15 09:38pm

LadyTevar wrote:Since I see nothing from one of the Sisterhood in this thread, let me state a woman's take on this guy:

He's fat, prolly ugly, and not worth a second look at, except as to point out to children as a bad example.

If I was JW, I'd 'poach off the range' before even considering anything remoltly romantic with this guy.

Man-boobs and fatty thighs... Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

--Somehow I doubt his looks are what prevents him from getting laid. I've seen (and known) plenty of men who do not look good and do far better than other men who do look good. As far as I can tell your game skillz (or lack thereof) are the only things that will make or break a your chances for certain.
-Think about it this way. Which guy has a better chance with women:
Guy A: Nerd that likes to talk about fourier transforms and the latests encryption algorithms. Resembles a fish in clorine water during social gatherings. Happens to be smart, has average looks, would probably make a good parent (due to being responsible, smart, etc.), and make a decent income (isn't rich though).
Guy B: Ugly and over weight guy that is nevertheless good at chatting up women, making them feel comfortable, is funny, etc. Is the "life of the party." Wouldn't be as good a parent as Guy A due to being somewhat irresponsible and not terribly smart. Makes enough money to get by, but that is about it.
-In my experience Guy A has little to no chance with women while Guy B will do just fine.

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