Patrick Ogaard wrote:
All good points. Here comes some disjointed commentary.
My comment to the effect that proton torpedoes might be the culprits is actually not entirely accurate. That is, I (clumsily) used proton torpedoes as a placeholder for any energy shell combining a plasma effect and a physical projectile core.
The Episode I ICS includes a two-page spread on the Trade Federation's Armored Assault Tank. The vehicle is shown as having a total of six launchers (mounted low forward) for energy projectiles of three different types: highly streamlined general-purpose energy shells, high explosive bunker busting shells, and armor piercing shells (that look very much like shaped charge weapons). The shells are supposed to be provided with a drag-reducing and penetration-enhancing high energy plasma cocoon (that would likely also provide these shells with protection against point defense weapons), applied in an energy cocooning chamber just before the launch tube. Thus, these weapons appear to be the vehicle-scale versions of Wookie bowcasters, whose function and ammunition are defined in the SW Visual Dictionary as virtually identical to the above.
Yes. I was thinking of those as well when I mentioned it.
The fact that the droid army did not use these energy shells to bombard the Gungan shield seems to indicate that the added firepower they could have added to the main guns of the tanks would not have been significant, or possibly that the tanks faced an either-or situation. If it was an either-or, then quite possibly the recoil of the shell launches, added to the heavy recoil of the main laser cannon, could have damaged the tanks: each shot of the main guns visibly rocked the repulsor tanks backward, an obvious problem for a ground vehicle without ground contact. It might also have been too much activity for the droids to coordinate simultaneously. A third alternative would be that the energy shell launchers could not fire rapidly enough to have a hope of overcoming the energy reradiation capacity of the small theater shield.
They may not neccesarily have had ammo for the launchers, either. Or they may not be designed for antipersonnel work. Or perhaps those tanks were just not outfitted with them (analogous to some Droidekas not having shield generators).
Going back to canon sources, as opposed to official stuff like the books above, the visuals of both proton torpedoes and concussion missiles are indistinguishable from conventional SW energy blasts (except that turbolaser bolts don't normally zip around corners). That makes it awfully difficult to differentiate between SW plasma-sheathed projectiles and other standard SW weapons.
Ion cannons could be another culprit. They look almost identical to lasers, yet apparently are a charged particle/plasma weapon. Perhaps they originate with the flak bursts... or maybe they are also the plasma-based "weapons" if we need them. That is something else I've considered.
Regarding the need perceived by me for the energy projectile launch systems to be integral to at least one class of Imperial turbolaser mount, that would be based on the following:
1) none of the material I've seen or read to date has stated that ISDs have any shipboard weapons systems except for assorted sizes of turbolasers and ion cannon;
Weapons loadouts for the Imperators (and even other ships) have varied from source to source. You'll recall that neither WEG nor WOTC (nor the novelizations really) have ever put the heavy flank turrets (or the quad laser batteries, or other weapons) on ISD's. Recently, WOTC added point defense lasers to the ISD-1 model (about the time the ICS came out, IIRC) There's also been disparity about the number/types of tractor bem projectors on the ship, also.
2) something out there is throwing explosive solids around, and
They could be internal launchers, and we just don't see them.
3) the older Victory class of Star Destroyer, just under a kilometer long, is referred to as having large numbers of concussion missile tubes, while the similarly venerable Invincible class battleships, with a length of over two kilometers, is referred to as being bristling with gun turrets and missile tubes, making it strange that a more modern destroyer would entirely dispense with missile weapons.
Executor-class ships also mounted concussion missile launchers. ACcording to canon (ANH novelization and radio drama) the Death Star also had "explosive solids" (Novel) and "missile tubes" (radio drama.) The novelization also, as I said, mentions weapons that aren't explicitly mentioned in other sources.
Some novelizations have indicated that ISD's apparently CAN be outfitted with missile batteries without much trouble (or internal redesigning, or concessions to armament.) The Emancipator and Liberator (Star destroyers captured at Endor and later lost during the Dark Empire era) had missile launchers. Pellaeons Star Destroyer in the Hand of Thrawn duology, as well as the Errant VEnture (and presumably the Tyrannic, the ship it was impersonating) had proton torpedo launchers. Zsinj in courtship of Princess Leia appeared to also have missile-armed ISD's. The probable conclusion does seem to be that there are at least some missile-armed ISD variants or that they CAN be outfitted rather easily with missile tubes (note that the VSD has two subclasses - one without ion cannons but with missile launchers and one with.) And of coruse we have the EClipse and Sovereign command ships without missile tubes.
Of course, a potential compromise would be to assume that some turrets simply include conventional energy shell / protorp launchers of standard fighter size. The launcher mechanism with a fairly large magazine would be tiny compared to the big, boxy twin turbolaser turrets, and would likely be all but invisible. All that would be visible on the turret face would be the relatively tiny black aperture of an energy shell launcher's muzzle, a detail that would simply disappear at that scale.
As I already said, they dont neccesarily need to be turrets. Fixed launchers could work fine (missiles are generally more useful for beyond energy range anyhow)
One potential method of exploding a plasma bolt would be the following, a method that would explain why, in one ROTJ, a turbolaser bolt appears to pass harmlessly through the forward section of an A-wing starfighter: Making laser cannon and turbolasers into particle lasers and using the option of generating mesons or other weakly interacting particles and subjecting them to precise acceleration that delays the inevitable decay of the mesons until a specific distance is reached. At that point, the mesons go boom, generating a massive shower of nasty EM and particle radiaton. That way, the ghostly tracer bolt could be considered to be nothing more than the premature decay of a tiny portion of the bolt. Energy shields should likely interact with mesons, simulating the impact of a conventional plasma bolt. Conventional armor materials would be virtually useless against such a bolt, however, though neutronium cladding would almost certainly provide effective protection. The one thing about mesons, though, is that a gun using them would be entirely capable of firing straight through geographic features or, for capital cannon, planets; that's an ability never demonstrated in canon or official materials as far as I know.
I dont know if I go witht eh hybrid "particle laser" notion exactly, though.C Such a weapon is rather awkward (the laser is going to heat the plasma/particles, exciting them and cuasing them to dissipate more rapidly.)
What you were describing with mesons sounds lik what Curtis has proposed. However, rather than being a massive particle like a meson, its composed of massless particles that decay into visible light. The visible "bolt" we see is a ripple along the otherwise-invisible beam, generated by the decay of said massless particles into visible light. This "decay" process is also used to help explain teh "flashses" we sometiems see in shield interactions. and like a meson, the massless particles release tehir energy in the form of photons, which cause the heating effects we've attributed to turbolaser sbefore.
Another possible method would be to dope a conventional plasma bolt with mesons, accelerating both to the same speed. When the mesons decay, the energies released blast the plasma bolt apart in a flak burst. That does require two different systems (meson-based particle accelerator and plasma cannon), but it is another possible option.
Clay already addressed this, I believe. I'll just add that mesons, as a source, are hard to control and really, too complex. But as I recall you abandoned this. If you were going to "charge" the bolt later with energy.. I suppose a small antimatter charge would do, or heat it from a laser..
The third method I can think of is to use a small energy shell with a large plasma cocoon. The shell is fired complete with its cocoon. At a suitable distance, the shell undergoes self-destruction and the plasma bolt again bursts apart. (That idea shows up on the stardestroyer.net website as one possible explanation for turbolaser behavior.) If the shell is not programmed to self-destruct, the shell/plasma combination could simply hit a target's shields or armor. The shell would also provide a physical source for a containment field keeping a plasma bolt together over extended distances.
Sounds like plasma bomb/energy cannosn from homeworld. It might work, but then again, one wouldn't neccesarily have to use a plasma in this example either. Other possiblities exist as well. WEhat you would do though, is a physical casing generating/sustaining the magnetic or whatever field containing the damaging component (plasma, or something else could work also.) Perhaps it also emits this "plasma to surround the shell as well.
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The problem is that neutronium has, because it has been used pretty much exclusively in sci-fi contexts, and because of serious confusion regarding its likely properties and ability to survive outside the environment of a neutron star, acquired a serious negative connotation. Essentially, it is the "crazy Buck Rogers stuff" connotation that makes neutronium seem like the holy grail to goofier sorts and like pure idiocy to the harder-headed sorts. It's used almost as liberally and wrongly as the infamous word "quantum" is in sci-fi contexts (and I've been guilty myself of misunderstanding the likely properties of superdense matter and in what contexts it might actually prove useful).