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Hoth. From beginning to end it was spectactular. The prelude to the battle seemed greater than any of the other ones. I especially like how the Rebel ranks were decimated when they dare attack the AT-ATs. Yavin follows close behind, then Endor, and finally Geonosis and Naboo.

CmdrWilkens wrote:
Quoting Dr Saxton " to date there is only debatable evidence for the existence of one sister ship."

Ahh, that's what I was thinking of, then.

Hoth for me.
A desperate battle against impossable odds that runs as a desperate battle against impossable odds.

CmdrWilkens wrote:

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote: Well when one ship is 3Km+ and the next biggest one weighs in somewhere between 1600 and 2000m it ought to give you a pretty good indication.

Weren't there at least two Home One type ships and possibly three at Endor?

Quoting Dr Saxton " to date there is only debatable evidence for the existence of one sister ship."

Well, I've argued for three - that one debatable one blown up by the DS2, Home One and what looked to be another one based on the position of the cruiser versus the Executor's final plunge.

phongn wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote: Quoting Dr Saxton " to date there is only debatable evidence for the existence of one sister ship."

Well, I've argued for three - that one debatable one blown up by the DS2, Home One and what looked to be another one based on the position of the cruiser versus the Executor's final plunge.

Of the two MonCal's blown up by the DS2 superlaser the first was obviously the Liberty and the second did not have the cigar shape of the Home One but was rather flatter, more like the wingless pearly design Curtis described.

CmdrWilkens wrote:Quoting Dr Saxton " to date there is only debatable evidence for the existence of one sister ship."

I disagree. The shot of the second Mon Calamari cruiser destroyed by the superlaser is the same model as Home One, yet she's still around by battle's end.

Phongn actually believes there's evidence of three Home One-type ships.

Greg & I have been over this before on ASVS

The third one is really up for debate, since Home One might have made a radical maneuver for some reason or another, but I find it unlikely.

CmdrWilkens wrote:Of the two MonCal's blown up by the DS2 superlaser the first was obviously the Liberty and the second did not have the cigar shape of the Home One but was rather flatter, more like the wingless pearly design Curtis described.

?? I thought it was precisely cigar-shaped. The pearly wingless is the Liberty without wings...and that was definitely not a Liberty-without-wings.

Geonosis. One of the few that wasn't decided by some one-shot trick pony, and Hoth, while cool, could've used a lot more as said earlier (the troops leaving the AT-ATs and engaging the Rebels, shots of AT-STs actually guarding the flanks).

Watching two sides blast at each other across an open field, charging headlong into emplaced artillery and the swooping attacks of ground-support aircraft, brings a tear to my eye

Darth Wong wrote:Similarly, the notion of the Rebel fleet actually destroying the Imperial flagship despite being vastly outgunned is just mind-boggling; why didn't the Imperial fleet concentrate fire on Home One and take it out early? Why didn't Jerjerrod hit it first? Argh.

Imperial Overconfidence. Remeber the fleet had orders not to engage the rebels.

Macross wrote:

Darth Wong wrote:Similarly, the notion of the Rebel fleet actually destroying the Imperial flagship despite being vastly outgunned is just mind-boggling; why didn't the Imperial fleet concentrate fire on Home One and take it out early? Why didn't Jerjerrod hit it first? Argh.

Imperial Overconfidence. Remeber the fleet had orders not to engage the rebels.

Even military orders are disobeyed in the face of self-preservation.

Lord Pounder wrote:Even military orders are disobeyed in the face of self-preservation.

Yes, and that was seen when Pellaeon gave the illegal order to retreat, an order that was broadly followed.

Hoth. You see just how badly the Rebels are outmatched, and it drives home the might of the Empire. Yavin comes into a close second.

Geonosis, because it was all carnage and didn't end in some deus ex machina thingy or something like that. Endor would be second, because although there was a good space battle, we didn't see enough of it. The battle of Yavin was memorable as well, mainly for the trench run. Hoth was pretty memorable too. The Battle of Naboo had perhaps one of the dumbest endings (The only way you could have made a boy in a fighter acciedentaly shooting some convienently placed generator to destroy the ship is if you put Jar Jar in the scene), and didn't have enough action.

Of the musical scores, I'd say Yavin had the best, as it went well with the action. Endor is second, as it sounded good, but didn't go with the action almost perfectly like Yavin. Naboo did have the Duel of the Fates, which was fitting for the action, as was Hoth. Since I don't remember the score for Geonosis, I'm not ranking it.

Endor forever! I love spacebattles, and Endor was simply the best

Isolder74 wrote: The Movie of Empire Strikes Back is proof that the GOOD GUYS DO NOT ALWAYS WIN.

Until the next movie of course

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:Endor would be second, because although there was a good space battle, we didn't see enough of it.

Well, there was a limit to the kind/# of sfx shots you could do back in '83.

I'm not sure whether to vote for Yavin or Hoth.

Screw all the eye-candy of the PT. From a story point-of-view, Yavin is probably the most exciting. Lucas really was at the top of his game here, the editing is probably the best of all the space sequences in the films. The amount of tension and suspence is unbelievable, and the dynamic visuals were unprecendented at the time. The final minute of the sequence is absolutly pulse-pounding. Han coming screaming out of the blazing sun with Luke firing just as the death star is firing...man, when Luke has that orgasmic gasp of relief as his torpedo blows up the station the audience does the same thing. Its a great sequence.

Hoth is probably the darkest and most atmospheric of all the battles. The visuals are absolutly stunning, and i love the slow, crawling doom that is driven home through the steady advancement of the AT-AT. Definitly the most intimidating of the Imperial vehicles. There really is a sense of dread about the whole thing, and of course the rebels get their asses handed to them. It was the first time the good guys really lost the "big" battle. The final moment of the sequence is mesmerising: "Begin retreating!", the rebelss are scrambling for their lives and the Walkers tower over them, gunning down the fleeing soldiers. The music and shots just work wonderfully, they really bring home the sadness and pain of defeat. The pace and tension is just great...the Imperials are always biting at the heros heels but somehow they just barely escape. It sort of exemplefies the whole tone of ESB.

Endor and Geonosis are great too. Nice edge-of-your-seat action and great visuals but the best parts are still the character-on-character conflicts: Luke vs Vader and the Emperor and Anakin and OB1 and Yoda vs Dooku, which arent really part of the battles. The actual battles retained the intensity of their predecessors but lacked the emotional punch-- its the duel scenes with the characters that are the real highlights. Naboo was good for the lightsaber duel but that doesnt compare to the other ones.

CmdrWilkens wrote:

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:

CmdrWilkens wrote:

Well when one ship is 3Km+ and the next biggest one weighs in somewhere between 1600 and 2000m it ought to give you a pretty good indication.

Weren't there at least two Home One type ships and possibly three at Endor?

Quoting Dr Saxton " to date there is only debatable evidence for the existence of one sister ship."

Actually, Saxton recognizes that there may have been three Home Ones at Endor, just as Phong proposes.

See "Observations" under "Ship Listing" in the Warships of the Calamari section of the Technical Commentaries, where Saxton says "In summary, there was at least one cruiser of Home One type, another example may have survived past Executor's demise, and there may have been a third sibling disintegrated early by the Death Star II."

Yavin IV is the best movie battle, eclipsing the Genosis battle.

Why did I hate the Genosis Battle? Because it was just a matter of dropping in clonetroopers and a gun duel to the end. the scene where clonetroopers advance in a line towards the opposing droid line is indicative of this.

Compare it to Yavin IV, where you had a desperate battle, against the odds, placing all hopes in an untested pilot who had no previous combat training in your command. The ultimate hero stereotype, of a kid, who becomes a hero.

The best overall is the Battle of Hoth.
This is the most dramatic battle, you can really feel the hoplessness of the rebel troops as they hiding in their trenches while the AT-ATs pushing forward. On the other side the professionalism and self-confidence of the imperial forces even gives more "weight" to the whole scene.
...and don't forget this time the filthy rebels got their asses kicked quite hard!

The Battle of Endor is truly the best space battle but the ground battle with those oversized teddy-bears ruin the whole thing.

Battle of Yavin...while I love this one, I always felt somehow it's not complete. Something is missing, maybe more action, better shots etc.
The dramatic parts, when the rebel pilots are being chase by Vader, the dialogues are great.

Geonosis. So and so, has good part and bad parts as well. Average one for me. I don't like the design of the vehicles.

Naboo...no comment.

phongn wrote:Yes, and that was seen when Pellaeon gave the illegal order to retreat, an order that was broadly followed.

Even after the order to retreat to Annaj was given, Grand Admiral Teshik stayed behind at Endor, and as a testement to his brilliance the battle raged on for another three hours before the Rebel fleet finally overcame his Star Destroyer's shields.

One ponders exactly why the Imperial fleet retreated when a Grand Admiral was in the vicinity. Surely the captains of the Star Destroyers should've followed Teshik's command over Pellaeon's, and yet they didn't. Then again, some of the officers who followed the Captain to Annaj were admirals (Harrsk, Teradoc, Drommel, Zsinj), so I'm not entirely sure where the Imperial chain-of-command had momentarily gotten to after the Emperor's death.

Even military orders are disobeyed in the face of self-preservation.

But the soldiers of the Empire were supposed to be the finest in the galaxy. They should have fought to the bitter end.

evilcat4000 wrote:

Even military orders are disobeyed in the face of self-preservation.

But the soldiers of the Empire were supposed to be the finest in the galaxy. They should have fought to the bitter end.

Stormtroopers have no regard for self-preservation, it's been brainwashed out of them (or for GeNodes just not imprinted). Officers on the other hand, are only human.

1) Endor, the sapce battle only. Visual effects that were so damn astonishing that Lucas didn't even touch it in the SE (unless there was something I missed) and made even more amazing by the fact that it was done 20 years ago. The Ground component can kiss my ass.

2) Hoth. Great tension, lots of good guys going down, kick ass war machines.

3) Yavin because of nostalgia.

4) Geonosis. Lots of eye candy although I wished it would have spent less time on the Jedi portion of the fight and more on the armies.

5) Naboo comes in last. It gets a few points for the number of different elements Lucas was able to weave together (a space battle, a ground battle, two Jedi taking on the most agile Sith we've ever seen, and the assault on the Viceroy) but the over all cheesyness of the Gungans and the fact that the space battle had all the negatives of ANH (good guys winning through sheer luck) and none of positives (no emotional connection to Anakin as with Luke, not nearly as much apparent emminent doom with Anakin as with Luke, no cool Han-Solo change of heart saving the day).