The Plan for the World sheriat by Hizb-ut-Tahir.

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-10-31 03:27pm

AniThyng wrote:i'd love to see how they try to stomp "pagan" China

i'd love a ring side seat for that fight.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-10-31 03:28pm

Setzer wrote:If Islam accepts the Bible as a legitimate religious work, that means the Koran can be summed up in 6 words "Here's some more commandments, I forgot."

And the New Testament can be summed up identically, as, you know, the Old Testament is where the laws are laid down. Of course, your moronic inability to conceive of something other than your religion being 'cool' means you won't get the point.

Why is it that none of the major religions are cool? The New age stuff is a revival of paganism, and Islam and Mormonism (with the revealing angel named Moroni, very appropriate) are of the "more commandments" variety.

When Christians destroy most other religions, you tend to wind up with poor substitutes.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-11-01 06:57am

I thought that Hizb-ut-Tahrir were quite a large organization worldwide - in Denmark they've definately gotten a lot of attention since a year or two ago.

No idea about their presence in Denmark but they are totaly unknown in muslim countries.

Anyway Hizb-ut-Tahir has no real power and no one knows them or cares what they think. So it is useless to worry about them.

The real threat are the mujahedeen organizations who are very well known and are actively recruiting people. Unlike Hizb-ut-Tahrir they do not spend their time screaming their intentions, they work covertly.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-11-01 07:10pm

Newtonian Fury wrote:You do know a significant number of the ethnic minorities over there are Muslim, right? Not to mention the non-fundamentalist half-Pakistani's.

You do realize that those "significant number" of ethnic minorities in China which are Muslim amount to only 1.2% of the entire populace numerically?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-11-01 08:30pm

Why do they think that a struggling band of letter-writers in dusty Central Asian nations can succeed where the Soviet Union failed?

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2003-11-01 09:54pm

Want to talk inconsistent? This brain trust considers Jews evil, and the US, UK and Israel to be Satanic, but they will ever-so-magnanimously permit Jews and Christians to live and even protect them if they pay some Muslim version of the Danegeld to them. Also, they have an amazing ability to modify or ignore the words of the Koran as it suits their plans. Some fundamentalists. I will say they have balls, to declare three first world countries with nukes to be evil, then offer to let them live in the imaginary world they plan to rule over, and then only if they pay them off. I think I speak for almost all Americans when I say, Bite Me!

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2003-11-02 12:19am

However given today's conditions, it was said that such a step "would become a farce, like the so-called European democracy"

Okay, I can deal with critisisms about the EU from its member countries, I can even stomach it from other western democracies (but always defend it), but where in the name of Zeus' butthole do these guys get off calling 'European democracy a farce'?

Are they talking about the EU in general, or just the political ideal of democracy? Are they saying that a system of government that was institutionalised in Athens some 2000 odd years ago, that gave rise to some of the greatest powers that has ever been on the face of this planet (for their respective times and spheres of influence) just didn't happen?

Morons.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-11-02 01:07am

"Hizb-ut-Tahrir", or whatever the fuck they call themselves needs to do the following

1- CUT THE CRACK,or at least increase the dosage to fatal levels
2- Stop believing they have the 'rebel luck' or Ewoks on there side. They must if they think any of that has a snowballs chance in hell
3- No reproduce. The human gene pool is polluted enough
4- Stop drinking the cool-aid the promise keepers gave to them.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2003-11-02 01:49pm

Darth Servo wrote: Even your most ignorant fundie doesn't believe that "God's holy word" just descended out of heaven one day. It was a compilation of works spanning several centuries. That very fact proves that the Bible itself is (to use your terms) "more commandments, I forgot"

Did Jesus "forget" to dictate the Revelation given to John while he was alive? Why do we need 39 books in the OT when God could have just given everything to Moses (or who ever it was that really wrote the first five books)?

Actually, I've run into people before who think that the Bible was created all at once...rather sad huh?

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-11-02 08:20pm

Darth Wong wrote:And how does this explain the nonsensical idea of sacrificing himself to himself in order to appease himself so that he may sit by himself in Heaven? Take whatever analogy you want, and it doesn't work. If Jesus is part of God, it doesn't work. If Jesus and God are separate beings who are joined in a sort of collective, it still doesn't work (if you're pissed at people, why would you let them kill one of your buddies in order to make you feel better?).

I might as well jump in here, sort of a tangent, but oh well.

The theology of the Orthodox Christians (Greek, Russian, etc) on this matter is pretty much as follows: Jesus was not sacrificed to appease himself or appease God, however you wish to term it. According to Eartern Orthodox theolgy, rather, the reason that Jesus died was because as both fully human and fully God, he could break the bonds of hell, in essence freeing the human race from death (not the physical side of it, though).

This is shown in Hebrews 2:14‑15: "He [Christ] himself likewise partook of the same nature that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is the devil, and deliver all who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."

Or, as Athanasius put it, "[Christ] was made man so that we might be made God." Jack Chick has blasted this statement as it appeared in the Roman Catholic cathecism (I guess he never looked at where it came from). The idea actually is a little clearer when you consider the Greek concept of demi-gods. Athanasius did clarify the position further when he wrote against the Arians. "There be one Son by nature...we too become sons, not as He in nature and truth, but according to the grace of Him that calleth, and though we are men from the earth, and yet called gods, not as the True God or His Word.... We are sons, not as the Son, as gods, not as He Himself. '' (Orat 3.19-20)

(the above quotes taken from this website)

If you want a slightly more well-thought-out essay on the subject, there's Robert Wilken's essay on the notion of salvation according to the early Church.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-11-02 08:34pm

Catholic Doctrine on the Trinity That's really important to read--the concept of the "Mystery" is vital to a really philosophical defence of Christian faith, such as can be attempted.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-11-02 08:38pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Catholic Doctrine on the Trinity That's really important to read--the concept of the "Mystery" is vital to a really philosophical defence of Christian faith, such as can be attempted.

I could write an essay on the matter, using a variety of sources but I'm too goddamn busy right now with school and all.

Indeed, though, the idea of the mystery is critical. It certainly doesn't help that when the word was brought into English, its meaning changed completely.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2003-11-02 08:59pm

SirNitram wrote:
Setzer wrote:If Islam accepts the Bible as a legitimate religious work, that means the Koran can be summed up in 6 words "Here's some more commandments, I forgot."
And the New Testament can be summed up identically, as, you know, the Old Testament is where the laws are laid down. Of course, your moronic inability to conceive of something other than your religion being 'cool' means you won't get the point.

Why is it that none of the major religions are cool? The New age stuff is a revival of paganism, and Islam and Mormonism (with the revealing angel named Moroni, very appropriate) are of the "more commandments" variety.
When Christians destroy most other religions, you tend to wind up with poor substitutes.

Jesus was the Messiah prophesied in the Old testament. The new Testament isn't like the Koran.

BTW, Be fair. I said none of the major religions, that includes my own.
One of the reasons I dislike organized religion is because the services are so boring.