Torpedos weak or armor strong?

[Lord of the Farce]

Don't know whether it really factors into this, but the area around the exaust port was suppose to be ray shielded, which means that the energy from the torp(s) detonating on the surface could have been interacting with it.

If the ray shields there were active, the torps should not have scored the armor.

*Shrug* Well, I did say "could".
Besides, looking at the EU (the X-Wing series at least), fighter torpedoes/missiles always seem to act like something of a magic-bullet against shields even when capital ships' heavy turbolasers are actually more powerful. I'd have to look, but there is a quote somewhere indicating that paired torps can detonate nano-seconds apart...

[The Silence and I]

Possible scenario: The two torpedoes fly towards the port, but miss. The closer of the two heeds its programming and does not detonate, however its protective energy shield plus its K.E. scorches the hull at impact. The other, suffering from the same glitch that deviated its course by over 4 meters, detonates. Its focused charge bores into the armor, and through several bulkheads behind, hitting and setting off the same volitile materials Luke had hit earlier with his cannons. Secondary explosions trapped under the hull rock the flexible decks. As the fighter pulls up a jet of fire billows out of the small, neat hole in armor, the only evidence of the destruction below.
Flexible decks make sense as a moon sized station is going to change shape slightly as it accelerates (the engines are primarily in the equator) and too much stiffness would result in stress fractures of literally gigantic proportions. Additionally, it may be a practical defense against the effects of bombardment. A powerful weapon strike will cause massive accelerations=deadly jarring=dead crew=bad. Inertial compensators might limit the effects, but they appear to suffer from the same problem as the Trek version: They kick in slowly. Examples include any weapon hit on the Falcon, and the collision between Star Destroyers in TESB. A possible solution: Set up mechanical buffers between the hull and the decks, and make the decks capable of swaying. A powerful, jarring hit may now be transformed in bothersome but not deadly rocking of the decks and bulkheads. The torpedo hit would have by passed the buffers, but it is the secondary explosions inside the decks that rocked them.
Long winded, but hopefully clear...if you are still awake

[Rogue 9]

A possible solution: Set up mechanical buffers between the hull and the decks, and make the decks capable of swaying. A powerful, jarring hit may now be transformed in bothersome but not deadly rocking of the decks and bulkheads.

In other words, what they do with modern skyscrapers and buildings that they want to earthquake-proof.

[Mad]

I've seen this discussed before, but never in too much detail...

Some sources indicate that Luke was using 1.5 kT torpedoes. If that is true (Dr. Saxton suggests that, based off of the name "proton torpedo," the energy release would not likely be less than the 100 kT range. Of course, that is an assumption based on the name of the weapon.) So there's a chance that the particular torpedoes used at Yavin were low-yield/high-speed torpedoes designed to maximize chances of scoring a hit. That these torps are weaker than anti-capship torps is probably a very likely scenario, since torpedoes used in missions where they are supposed to attack capships describes them as making rather large craters in the ship's superstructure.

Based off of the RotJ novelization, proton torpedoes appear to have less penetration power than concussion missiles, also.

If the ray shields there were active, the torps should not have scored the armor.

Then again, we've seen instances of damage to a ship's surface without shields being taken down.

[Ender]

Possible scenario: The two torpedoes fly towards the port, but miss. The closer of the two heeds its programming and does not detonate, however its protective energy shield plus its K.E. scorches the hull at impact. The other, suffering from the same glitch that deviated its course by over 4 meters, detonates. Its focused charge bores into the armor, and through several bulkheads behind, hitting and setting off the same volitile materials Luke had hit earlier with his cannons. Secondary explosions trapped under the hull rock the flexible decks. As the fighter pulls up a jet of fire billows out of the small, neat hole in armor, the only evidence of the destruction below.

Care to point out the hole your theory requires?

Flexible decks make sense as a moon sized station is going to change shape slightly as it accelerates (the engines are primarily in the equator) and too much stiffness would result in stress fractures of literally gigantic proportions.

Or instead they could use materials that are simply strong enough to resist the stress and back that with energy fields. That is what we know to be the case based off of the movies, ICSs and novels.

Additionally, it may be a practical defense against the effects of bombardment. A powerful weapon strike will cause massive accelerations=deadly jarring=dead crew=bad.

Given the sheer mass of the ships the rocking from a concentrated bombardment is going to be minimal. This is what we see in the movies and novels.

Inertial compensators might limit the effects, but they appear to suffer from the same problem as the Trek version: They kick in slowly. Examples include any weapon hit on the Falcon,

A poorly maintained private ship known to be constantly falling apart?

and the collision between Star Destroyers in TESB.

An impact that had more momentum to it then any weapons strike and was over several seconds agaisnt rough surfaces? Neither example is particularly compelling. Best defense they have is the sheer mass of the ships.

[quiote]A possible solution: Set up mechanical buffers between the hull and the decks, and make the decks capable of swaying. A powerful, jarring hit may now be transformed in bothersome but not deadly rocking of the decks and bulkheads.[/quote]Except current rocking is not deadly. Hell, the entire rebel fleet pounding the DS only made luke stumble, thats a shifting of a few cms at most.

The torpedo hit would have by passed the buffers, but it is the secondary explosions inside the decks that rocked them.
Long winded, but hopefully clear...if you are still awake

I don't think you have given this sufficient thought. Lets examine a few key points of the ships:

1) Armor. They are covered in extremely thick, extremely dense armor. The stuff on an ISD is ~20 meters thick, and this stuff is made of heavy metals and has some neutronium stuck in it.
2) Fuel. Reaction engines like they use on ships that can go years without needing resupply like theirs means that it must have massive amounts of onboard fuel reserves. On top of that the fuel for their reactors appear to be from the same source as there are no other silos onboard. This is probably the single largest source of mass on the thing.
3) Scale. The fact that they use reaction engines means a certain percentage of overall mass must be propellant. This means that to have sufficient room for other things, the ship must be massive. Which raises the other two which raises this.

Now you've got mile long capital ships which have low end mass estimates in the billions of tons. That's enough mass to resist significant movement from a weapon strike. You also have a limited internal volume, Now as an engineer, do you want to take up more of that volume with this system you and Howedar are talking about when the simple mass of the ship would make it redundant, or do you let basic physics do their job and instead use that volume to install another system?

[Ender]

I've seen this discussed before, but never in too much detail...

Some sources indicate that Luke was using 1.5 kT torpedoes. If that is true (Dr. Saxton suggests that, based off of the name "proton torpedo," the energy release would not likely be less than the 100 kT range. Of course, that is an assumption based on the name of the weapon.)

ROTJ novel calls them thermonuclear devices.

If the ray shields there were active, the torps should not have scored the armor.

Then again, we've seen instances of damage to a ship's surface without shields being taken down.

Yes, on ships with far, far, far weaker shields by much stronger weapons.

[The Kernel]

Is it possible that the Proton Torpedeos are armor piercing weapons? This would explain the small surface scarring as well as the blast and the shaking inside the Death Star. Perhaps they simply penetrated and detonated inside the DS, rocking it from within. This fits the screencap as there seems to be a small puncture hole.

[Howedar]

Ender, how long have I been here? How long have you been here? Could you at least get my name right?

[Sharp-kun]

Taking into account the massive explosion we see as Red Leader pulls up, I always assumed that those torpedoes went off as well.

Thats what I thought, looking back from his X-Wing in the cockpit shot, you can also see part of the DS's surface burning.

It could simply be that they hit something volitile near the port, and the KE set it off.

Something exploded though.

[Mad]

ROTJ novel calls them thermonuclear devices.

To my knowledge, there's a mention of a "thermonuclear explosion," but the source of that explosion is never given. Unless a clear connection is made, the thermonuclear weapon could've been another kind of weapon. (Unless there's a quote I'm not aware of, it's a leap in logic to assume that explosion was from a proton torpedo as opposed to some other weapon.)

Yes, on ships with far, far, far weaker shields by much stronger weapons.

But we may not know the yield for those torpedoes (so how can you say the other weapons are stronger?) and we don't know how powerful the shields would be in this area? (Could be some redundant shielding since they're far lower than where the shields protecting the DS should be.)

[Ender]

ROTJ novel calls them thermonuclear devices.

To my knowledge, there's a mention of a "thermonuclear explosion," but the source of that explosion is never given. Unless a clear connection is made, the thermonuclear weapon could've been another kind of weapon. (Unless there's a quote I'm not aware of, it's a leap in logic to assume that explosion was from a proton torpedo as opposed to some other weapon.)

Granted, I suppose. I really don't see how anything but a missile is going to cause a thermonuclear explosion.

Yes, on ships with far, far, far weaker shields by much stronger weapons.

But we may not know the yield for those torpedoes (so how can you say the other weapons are stronger?)

If fighter carried weapons are stronger then capital grade turbolasers, why don't capital ships carry massive amounts of fighter torps instead.

and we don't know how powerful the shields would be in this area? (Could be some redundant shielding since they're far lower than where the shields protecting the DS should be.)

Is there any evidence that they would have lower shields in an area being attacked? The shield stopped the explosion, even if they were a fraction of a percent of the strenght of the total shields the fighters shouldn't have done crap. More likely explanation is that they were under the shields.

[Ender]

Taking into account the massive explosion we see as Red Leader pulls up, I always assumed that those torpedoes went off as well.

Thats what I thought, looking back from his X-Wing in the cockpit shot, you can also see part of the DS's surface burning.

It could simply be that they hit something volitile near the port, and the KE set it off.

Something exploded though.

The explosion could just have been the propellent in the torp.

[Master of Ossus]

The "thermonuclear explosion" quote from the novel is taken from a part of the novel during which only the Imperial fighters are engaging the Alliance capital ships. Since Ackbar sees these explosions outside, it seems clear that they are caused by starfighter weapons.

[Connor MacLeod]

The "thermonuclear explosion" quote from the novel is taken from a part of the novel during which only the Imperial fighters are engaging the Alliance capital ships. Since Ackbar sees these explosions outside, it seems clear that they are caused by starfighter weapons.

True. Theoretically it could be energy weapons, but we did not see evidence of Imperial starships firing, and Palpatine gave rather explicit orders not to attack.

[The Silence and I]

Care to point out the hole your theory requires?

We see one scorch mark. Is it hard to imagine the other impact making a hole a few meters over...you know, off screen?

Or instead they could use materials that are simply strong enough to resist the stress and back that with energy fields. That is what we know to be the case based off of the movies, ICSs and novels.

And yet part of the station shook.

Given the sheer mass of the ships the rocking from a concentrated bombardment is going to be minimal. This is what we see in the movies and novels.

Think about it, if mass was the only factor, then those torps could not have shaken the crew around the impact site. There must have been local flexing in the hull, or do you think every crew member on board was knocked around with the rest of the DS? (or do you deny that part of the station did infact shake despite the overall mass?)

A poorly maintained private ship known to be constantly falling apart?

You don't let the compensators break down, it is bad. I would expect that to be one of the better kept systems on board the Falcon. AND, aside from TESB the Falcon rarely breaks down.

and the collision between Star Destroyers in TESB.

An impact that had more momentum to it then any weapons strike and was over several seconds agaisnt rough surfaces? Neither example is particularly compelling. Best defense they have is the sheer mass of the ships.

So they don't have compensators? Or are you arguing they just don't bother to counter unexpected changes in accel? Either way, I am sure there are more examples. I'll have to check to be sure, though.

A possible solution: Set up mechanical buffers between the hull and the decks, and make the decks capable of swaying. A powerful, jarring hit may now be transformed in bothersome but not deadly rocking of the decks and bulkheads.

Except current rocking is not deadly. Hell, the entire rebel fleet pounding the DS only made luke stumble, thats a shifting of a few cms at most.

"The Rebel cruisers were unloading a continuous bombardment on the exposed, unfinished superstructure of the Death Star..." p. 467, ROTJ No where near Luke, and this is a diferent DS
Also, are you saying there would be no violent sudders say, at ground zero?

The torpedo hit would have by passed the buffers, but it is the secondary explosions inside the decks that rocked them.
Long winded, but hopefully clear...if you are still awake

I don't think you have given this sufficient thought. Lets examine a few key points of the ships:

1) Armor. They are covered in extremely thick, extremely dense armor. The stuff on an ISD is ~20 meters thick, and this stuff is made of heavy metals and has some neutronium stuck in it.

The stuff on and ISD is ~20 meters thick, huh? Great! Except the stuff on the DS was...NOT!! Laser cannons from Luke's X-Wing easily blew holes in it. Apples to oranges.

2) Fuel. Reaction engines like they use on ships that can go years without needing resupply like theirs means that it must have massive amounts of onboard fuel reserves. On top of that the fuel for their reactors appear to be from the same source as there are no other silos onboard. This is probably the single largest source of mass on the thing.

A container ship is a very massive sea going vessel, but it is not so hard to rock the loosely assemble containers. The DS's outer decks rocked near the torp impacts, so unless the entire station shook, the outer decks are loosely constructed/flexible in nature. Don't ask me to prove why the Empire built them that way, I can only say they are.

3) Scale. The fact that they use reaction engines means a certain percentage of overall mass must be propellant. This means that to have sufficient room for other things, the ship must be massive. Which raises the other two which raises this.

Same as above.

That the DS is massive I will never dispute. That a weapon strike will shake the entire DS I have not claimed. That a tiny part of the DS near a weapon impact shook cannot be disputed. Your above post seems to indicate I did not know the DS was massive, and attempts to show why the entire station could not have shaken, while apparently trying to deny the fact that a tiny, localized part of the station did shake. Well, guess what? Part of it did shake, you lose. Immensely rigid materials/forcefields not withstanding, part of it did shake. Want some easy, simple explaination? Here: Think of an armored sphere. Everything inside is devoted to the machinery that makes the DS go. Then add lightly constructed unarmored boxes on the outer surface of the sphere. These contain crew quarters, defensive weapon mounts and whatever else we see on the DS's surface. These are not very thick, and may be added on top of the armored ship proper without affecting its sphericl shape. They would be only tough enough to withstand accelerations, and weapon impacts could easily send shudders through them. There, easy, and I believe it fits all the facts I know of (If the ICS disproves this I wouldn't know, so don't bite my head off )

[Ender]

Care to point out the hole your theory requires?

We see one scorch mark. Is it hard to imagine the other impact making a hole a few meters over...you know, off screen?

so one torp only managed to scortch the armor, but the other penetrated it. This requires one to be more massive then the other, which you need to prove. Further, you cannot prove the hole was there.

Or instead they could use materials that are simply strong enough to resist the stress and back that with energy fields. That is what we know to be the case based off of the movies, ICSs and novels.

And yet part of the station shook.

Which in no way refute my showing you are wrong. It shook, so this automatically means that the materials are flexible despite the fact that flexible materials would deform like crazy under the observed stress in the movie. You automatically discount the possibility that the whol station shook. In addition, having it flex is an exceptionally bad idea as it would damage inflexible parts. Unless of course you think its a good idea to be bending the emitters of the SL beams.

Given the sheer mass of the ships the rocking from a concentrated bombardment is going to be minimal. This is what we see in the movies and novels.

Think about it, if mass was the only factor, then those torps could not have shaken the crew around the impact site. There must have been local flexing in the hull, or do you think every crew member on board was knocked around with the rest of the DS?

the latter, despite the fact that it makes the scene messed up, is the more sensible explanation then yours. If the DS was made out of a flexible material, we should see massive deformation upon jumping to hyperspace, upon firing the SL, and by simply accelerating around Yavin, as all those have far more momentum to them then a bombardment or torpedo stike.

(or do you deny that part of the station did infact shake despite the overall mass?)

Do not attempt to pull this crap. I have thus far been patient with your circular logic, that "the hull is flexible because it shook from the torpedo strike and the hull shook because the hull is flexible". Try to be patronizing while taking the idiotic position again and that shall cease.

A poorly maintained private ship known to be constantly falling apart?

You don't let the compensators break down, it is bad. I would expect that to be one of the better kept systems on board the Falcon.

So did you totally miss the exit growl the stress puts on the hull when it exits hyperspace due to poor compensators then?

AND, aside from TESB the Falcon rarely breaks down.

Don't try to dismiss evidence.

and the collision between Star Destroyers in TESB.

An impact that had more momentum to it then any weapons strike and was over several seconds agaisnt rough surfaces? Neither example is particularly compelling. Best defense they have is the sheer mass of the ships.

So they don't have compensators? Or are you arguing they just don't bother to counter unexpected changes in accel? Either way, I am sure there are more examples. I'll have to check to be sure, though.

You attempt to distort my position and then dodge the point. Knock this crap off.

A possible solution: Set up mechanical buffers between the hull and the decks, and make the decks capable of swaying. A powerful, jarring hit may now be transformed in bothersome but not deadly rocking of the decks and bulkheads.

Except current rocking is not deadly. Hell, the entire rebel fleet pounding the DS only made luke stumble, thats a shifting of a few cms at most.

"The Rebel cruisers were unloading a continuous bombardment on the exposed, unfinished superstructure of the Death Star..." p. 467, ROTJ No where near Luke, and this is a diferent DS
Also, are you saying there would be no violent sudders say, at ground zero?

You are treating your assumption, one that is contradicted by evidence on the materials used and based from circular logic as fact as an attempt to ignore my point. Quit this patronizing smiley crap. Your attempt to appear smarter then you are is failing horribly.

The torpedo hit would have by passed the buffers, but it is the secondary explosions inside the decks that rocked them.
Long winded, but hopefully clear...if you are still awake

I don't think you have given this sufficient thought. Lets examine a few key points of the ships:

1) Armor. They are covered in extremely thick, extremely dense armor. The stuff on an ISD is ~20 meters thick, and this stuff is made of heavy metals and has some neutronium stuck in it.

The stuff on and ISD is ~20 meters thick, huh? Great! Except the stuff on the DS was...NOT!! Laser cannons from Luke's X-Wing easily blew holes in it. Apples to oranges.

Did you miss the fact I was talking in generalities? Yes, you sure did.

2) Fuel. Reaction engines like they use on ships that can go years without needing resupply like theirs means that it must have massive amounts of onboard fuel reserves. On top of that the fuel for their reactors appear to be from the same source as there are no other silos onboard. This is probably the single largest source of mass on the thing.

A container ship is a very massive sea going vessel, but it is not so hard to rock the loosely assemble containers. The DS's outer decks rocked near the torp impacts, so unless the entire station shook, the outer decks are loosely constructed/flexible in nature. Don't ask me to prove why the Empire built them that way, I can only say they are.

Except you can't. The movies shows that the materials do not deform under stress like you claim, having parts be flexible while attached to not flexible parts requires systems abscent in the ICS, and your entire position is circular logic.

3) Scale. The fact that they use reaction engines means a certain percentage of overall mass must be propellant. This means that to have sufficient room for other things, the ship must be massive. Which raises the other two which raises this.

Same as above.

Nothing you said above refutes any of this, so referring to your above response is wrong.

That the DS is massive I will never dispute. That a weapon strike will shake the entire DS I have not claimed. That a tiny part of the DS near a weapon impact shook cannot be disputed. Your above post seems to indicate I did not know the DS was massive, and attempts to show why the entire station could not have shaken, while apparently trying to deny the fact that a tiny, localized part of the station did shake. Well, guess what? Part of it did shake, you lose.

Boy, I showed on a previous page why even having a fraction of the station shake is a contradiction. I have not denied that it has, I have instead shown that the fact that it did despite the contradictory evidence means that the scene must be disregarded as are other scences in Trek.

Immensely rigid materials/forcefields not withstanding, part of it did shake. Want some easy, simple explaination? Here: Think of an armored sphere. Everything inside is devoted to the machinery that makes the DS go. Then add lightly constructed unarmored boxes on the outer surface of the sphere. These contain crew quarters, defensive weapon mounts and whatever else we see on the DS's surface. These are not very thick, and may be added on top of the armored ship proper without affecting its sphericl shape. They would be only tough enough to withstand accelerations, and weapon impacts could easily send shudders through them.

You claim to know that the DS is massive, yet ignore the fact that because of the the greater momentum from accleeration would dwarf the weapons strikes. So according to you, something weak will shake it, but something strong will not. Does that make any sense what so ever? No, and neither do any of your claims.

There, easy, and I believe it fits all the facts I know of

Then you don't know of basic physics.

Acceleration
Acceleration of DS: 100 Gs
Mass of DS: 1E30
Momentum imparted after 1 second of acceleration: 1E33

Turbolaser strike
Yield: 200 GT
Energy per GT: 4.2E18
Speed of light: 3E8
Momentum imparted by strike: 2.5E29

So acceleration won't shake it, but a shot that imparts almost 4000 times less momentum will?

(If the ICS disproves this I wouldn't know, so don't bite my head off )

If you wouldn't know, then that's because you don't read, because I stated such structures are missing in a previous post.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Don't know whether it really factors into this, but the area around the exaust port was suppose to be ray shielded, which means that the energy from the torp(s) detonating on the surface could have been interacting with it.

If the ray shields there were active, the torps should not have scored the armor.

Could the first torpedo of the pair have downed the shield for a moment thus allowing the 2nd torpedo to score the armor? Since the 2nd scorch mark doesnt seem to be there, this is a possibility.

[Ender]

Don't know whether it really factors into this, but the area around the exaust port was suppose to be ray shielded, which means that the energy from the torp(s) detonating on the surface could have been interacting with it.

If the ray shields there were active, the torps should not have scored the armor.

Could the first torpedo of the pair have downed the shield for a moment thus allowing the 2nd torpedo to score the armor? Since the 2nd scorch mark doesnt seem to be there, this is a possibility.

Would depend on shield mechanics with relation to intensity, somehting we don't know a lot about.

Or they could have exploded on contact as opposed to close proximity, but I doubt that, contanct would knock loose components or something at those speeds.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

If the ray shields there were active, the torps should not have scored the armor.

Could the first torpedo of the pair have downed the shield for a moment thus allowing the 2nd torpedo to score the armor? Since the 2nd scorch mark doesnt seem to be there, this is a possibility.

Would depend on shield mechanics with relation to intensity, somehting we don't know a lot about.

Or they could have exploded on contact as opposed to close proximity, but I doubt that, contanct would knock loose components or something at those speeds.

Hmm, it was only mentioned that the hole was ray shielded. I think the problem is that we dont know how large the shield was and what magnitude of shield it was. Considering that it was only ray shielded, the designers obviously did not expect the shield to fall under torpedo attack. Thus the more likely possibility is that it was designed as defense against energy fire, but again of what magnitude of energy fire we cant be certain. Anyhow the possibility is that the torpedo merely overcame the energy dissipation capability of the heat sinks in the generator and the generator thusly overloaded.

The contact triggering is highly doubtfull and on top of that it would be meaningless. Since pro-torps are highly focused, it would make practically zero difference whether the warhead detonated 1 meter from target or when hitting it.

[Mad]

Granted, I suppose. I really don't see how anything but a missile is going to cause a thermonuclear explosion.

Proton torpedoes aren't the only missile weapons used in SW.

If fighter carried weapons are stronger then capital grade turbolasers, why don't capital ships carry massive amounts of fighter torps instead.

Because turbolasers have a higher output, longer range, can't be shot down, and can fire more often. If there were shields on that section of the DS, the bleedthrough from the attack did nothing but a little scouring on the hull. In Isard's Revenge, medium turbolasers did more damage bia bleedthrough against an ISD's shields than that torpedo did.

Is there any evidence that they would have lower shields in an area being attacked?

I figured a secondary shield setup would have a lower output. After all, if the main shields of the station had gone down to that point, the station's arleady in trouble.

The shield stopped the explosion, even if they were a fraction of a percent of the strenght of the total shields the fighters shouldn't have done crap. More likely explanation is that they were under the shields.

Having the torpedoes do less damage to naked hull than fighter lasers which should be quite a bit weaker seems odd, though.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'm still waiting to see why the trembling could not be from subsidiary explosions set off by the torpedoes on the Deaht Star's surface. We know enough of those occured with the energy weapons fire hitting targets - through EMP perhaps?)

[Tribun]

I'm still waiting to see why the trembling could not be from subsidiary explosions set off by the torpedoes on the Deaht Star's surface. We know enough of those occured with the energy weapons fire hitting targets - through EMP perhaps?)

I don't know that I have opend a such interesting thread. I wonder what other have to say to all of this...?

[The Silence and I]

Ender,
I am sorry if I annoyed you, I was trying to get my point across in as little time as possible and due to the rushing it became disjointed.

1. I originally offered the opinion the second torpedo detonated, nothing about greater mass, or penetration, while the 1st one did not. And you are absolutely right, I cannot prove there is a hole off-screen. It makes some sense to me though that the other torpedo hit the hull somewhere not shown, as I do not recall the two flying shoulder to shoulder.
2. I refuse to accept the idea that one or two fighter launched torpedoes imparted enough K.E., with or without warhead detonation, to shake the entire Battle Station. Just as you have repeatedly told me, it is just too massive. If here-in lies our disagreement, then I am sorry to have wasted your time, because I will not accept such a notion.
3. From the tone of your posts I suspect this is all. I never meant to insult you, and I am not going to start. If and when I compile a more coherent version of my basic thought I will bring it up. I will not try to defend my half-baked idea from you, so have a nice day.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

If the ray shields there were active, the torps should not have scored the armor.

Ray shields have no affect on torpedoes, only lasers. Hence: "The shaft is ray-shielded so you'll have to use proton torpedoes." by Jan Dodonna in ANH.

[Mad]

]Ray shields have no affect on torpedoes, only lasers. Hence: "The shaft is ray-shielded so you'll have to use proton torpedoes." by Jan Dodonna in ANH.

Ray shielding would be able to absorb the energy release of the explosion after detonation. A ray shield just won't stop the torpedo itself.