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Stormbringer wrote:

Alyeska wrote:The former captain only sold 6 dreadnaughts to Garm. There were another 9 or so still there that the NR managed to take control of. Thrawn had 175+ dreadnaughts.

I do believe he sold eleven more to other buyers. And the New Republic got fifteen of the remainder, figuring in the loss of the Katana that leaves Thrawn 164 dreadnaughts. There are probably some that couldn't be made ready for war (an insane crew with heavy weapons will bust a ship up quick) and were scavaged. So I'd figure it'd be more like 150 or so that he managed to get all told.

Where did the bit about him selling 11 others come from? You would think that with 17 of them out there they would have been found out MUCH sooner because people love to tell secrets.

Alyeska wrote:
Where did the bit about him selling 11 others come from? You would think that with 17 of them out there they would have been found out MUCH sooner because people love to tell secrets.

It's from the book, I'd provide a quote to that affect if I could get my hands on the book. My copy is 183 miles away right now.

Actually, Bel Iblis was supposed to have five. And I'd imagine that the Captain sold them to equally discrete buyers. Disposing a twenty ships obsolete ships wouldn't be two hard, especially since there were probably other Dreadnaughts being sold or scrapped. The Empire didn't seem to keep around the older model Dreadnaughts so they could well have been sold to places like the Coporate Sector Authority.

Stormbringer wrote:

Alyeska wrote:
Where did the bit about him selling 11 others come from? You would think that with 17 of them out there they would have been found out MUCH sooner because people love to tell secrets.

It's from the book, I'd provide a quote to that affect if I could get my hands on the book. My copy is 183 miles away right now.

Actually, Bel Iblis was supposed to have five. And I'd imagine that the Captain sold them to equally discrete buyers. Disposing a twenty ships obsolete ships wouldn't be two hard, especially since there were probably other Dreadnaughts being sold or scrapped. The Empire didn't seem to keep around the older model Dreadnaughts so they could well have been sold to places like the Coporate Sector Authority.

Bel Iblis had 5 when he made that attack he was so proud of when he destroyed the Imperial inteligence base, but he eventually bought one more from the guy.

Hmm, seems kinda odd that the Katana fleet remained a secret with 17 of the ships operating but with the smaller crews its still within the realm of possibility.

Alyeska wrote: Bel Iblis had 5 when he made that attack he was so proud of when he destroyed the Imperial inteligence base, but he eventually bought one more from the guy.

Hmm, seems kinda odd that the Katana fleet remained a secret with 17 of the ships operating but with the smaller crews its still within the realm of possibility.

Actually, if Bel Iblis had six of the twenty on the market that would mean there aren't too many out there. Just sixteen out how many thousand built?
And if as I suspect, the older model dreadnaughts got sold surplus, you could hide the ships provided you were careful. They aren't too distinctive on the outside, it's the inside that counts. And for all we know, the captain selling them may have demanded they not reveal the ship's origin or never be able to buy another. Getting cut off from a source of major capital warships would hurt.

Alyeska wrote:

Stormbringer wrote:

Alyeska wrote:
Where did the bit about him selling 11 others come from? You would think that with 17 of them out there they would have been found out MUCH sooner because people love to tell secrets.

It's from the book, I'd provide a quote to that affect if I could get my hands on the book. My copy is 183 miles away right now.

Actually, Bel Iblis was supposed to have five. And I'd imagine that the Captain sold them to equally discrete buyers. Disposing a twenty ships obsolete ships wouldn't be two hard, especially since there were probably other Dreadnaughts being sold or scrapped. The Empire didn't seem to keep around the older model Dreadnaughts so they could well have been sold to places like the Coporate Sector Authority.

Bel Iblis had 5 when he made that attack he was so proud of when he destroyed the Imperial inteligence base, but he eventually bought one more from the guy.

Hmm, seems kinda odd that the Katana fleet remained a secret with 17 of the ships operating but with the smaller crews its still within the realm of possibility.

Factor in as well that Captain Pelleon, IIRC, was also a Katana Fleet history buff, but it took Thrawn pointing out the slightly darker shade of grey that Iblis' ships were painted in and the fewer lit viewports on the ships before Pelleon recognized them as being Katana Fleet.

And despite the Katana Fleet's disaster being a major historical event for the Old Republic, IIRC it happened quite a long time ago in their timeline, possibly even a century or two. With that time frame, some of the details might have been forgotten by all but the most avid history buffs, such as their different paint scheme/appearance in comparison to traditional Dreadnaughts...

greenmm wrote: Factor in as well that Captain Pelleon, IIRC, was also a Katana Fleet history buff, but it took Thrawn pointing out the slightly darker shade of grey that Iblis' ships were painted in and the fewer lit viewports on the ships before Pelleon recognized them as being Katana Fleet.

And despite the Katana Fleet's disaster being a major historical event for the Old Republic, IIRC it happened quite a long time ago in their timeline, possibly even a century or two. With that time frame, some of the details might have been forgotten by all but the most avid history buffs, such as their different paint scheme/appearance in comparison to traditional Dreadnaughts...

I do believe according to the timelime that it's some time in between Palpatine's election and the beginning of the Clone Wars. My guess and that of a few other members, is that it's Palpy-boy's first attempt to build a navy to compliment his clone army.

With the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire happening a few years later, it's clear that the Katana Fleet is remembered but a lot of specifics were distorted.

Stormbringer wrote:

greenmm wrote: Factor in as well that Captain Pelleon, IIRC, was also a Katana Fleet history buff, but it took Thrawn pointing out the slightly darker shade of grey that Iblis' ships were painted in and the fewer lit viewports on the ships before Pelleon recognized them as being Katana Fleet.

And despite the Katana Fleet's disaster being a major historical event for the Old Republic, IIRC it happened quite a long time ago in their timeline, possibly even a century or two. With that time frame, some of the details might have been forgotten by all but the most avid history buffs, such as their different paint scheme/appearance in comparison to traditional Dreadnaughts...

I do believe according to the timelime that it's some time in between Palpatine's election and the beginning of the Clone Wars. My guess and that of a few other members, is that it's Palpy-boy's first attempt to build a navy to compliment his clone army.

With the Clone Wars and the rise of the Empire happening a few years later, it's clear that the Katana Fleet is remembered but a lot of specifics were distorted.

Really? I'll have to borrow the books from my dad again, as I thought it was a lot longer than that. Not that I doubt your word, I just hate to be carrying around the wrong information in my brain.

However, even if we're only looking at about a 20-30 year period, the turbulance of the time period (as we know from the century, war can literally be hell on archived records, particularly in war zone areas), combined with Palpatine's probable purging and rewriting of the historical records (SOP for dictators when taking control), I guess it would still explain the distortions, without requiring a lengthy period of time.

my guess would be that the Dreadnaught was decomissioned and replaced with the Victory, but the victory was Decomissioned coz Palpy wanted larger ships

Muad'Dib wrote:my guess would be that the Dreadnaught was decomissioned and replaced with the Victory, but the victory was Decomissioned coz Palpy wanted larger ships

The old-style Republican dreadnaughts were retired in favor of the VSDs. Some of the newer dreadnaught classes still serve out on the fringe. During the warlord days they probably were used for rear area security.

The VSD wasn't decommisioned. They were never the sort of versatile ship that the Imperators were. The original VSD was more geared to planetary conquest than the ISD. Those probably were partially decommisioned eventually, some are still around. A lot of the got sold off to various buyers, such as the Corperate Sector Authority. The VSD-IIs were a much more balanced platform but still not as capable ship to ship. Both sub-types were used on the fringe and as the Empire crumbled were once more pressed into frontline service.