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Lagmonster wrote:

Xisiqomelir wrote:

Metrion Cascade wrote:Having that kind of power over someone (and then watching them get arrested) is better than anything else.

Yes, beating people in a fight is a wonderful feeling. Especially more with choking than striking, because you can feel them slowly collapsing.

Don't be a dick. Beating up someone is NEVER worth feeling good about.

It's really more a primal than a rational feeling. I agree that it's not a value which is conducive to civilized behaviour.

Trytostaydead wrote:No, beating people feels pretty good. One time I was jumped by four guys at school.. well, they thought I was a puny asian and decided to pick on me..

These are the sort of people who deserve to be beaten. I can't really empathize with bullies.

Ghost Rider wrote:

Shinova wrote:Exacting poetic justice on an offender of some kind, on the other hand......would be really, really fun.

Why would exacting justice be fun?

Exacting justice isn't fun as much as... primally satisfying. I have had few violent experiences in my life and none that I started, but it's great feeling to know that if some ass-tick comes along with rage to spend I can, if it comes down to it, cope.

Sriad wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:

Shinova wrote:Exacting poetic justice on an offender of some kind, on the other hand......would be really, really fun.

Why would exacting justice be fun?

Exacting justice isn't fun as much as... primally satisfying. I have had few violent experiences in my life and none that I started, but it's great feeling to know that if some ass-tick comes along with rage to spend I can, if it comes down to it, cope.

That I can understand and have done. At best it's stress relieved in the worst way and in no way am I particularly proud of...its akin to getting it over with and ending it. At worst it ends and I have done nothing but whomp someone and feel a gnawing pit of rationlizing it was either him or me.

But I have never found it fun to fight regardless of the end result. Fun and fighting creates the worst outlook on relishing on an action that at best should be considered a distasteful action that has been thrusted upon one.

I can understand about punishing someone who deserves it. My freshman year of college an asshole guy in the dorms got a little too asshole with a female friend and touched her in a way she shouldn't have. There were four of us who visited him, and when we left he was unconscious and duct-taped to his ceiling.

I understand it took five people to get him down safely and no one knew who did it;)

He didn't look at a woman the rest of the year.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:I can understand about punishing someone who deserves it. My freshman year of college an asshole guy in the dorms got a little too asshole with a female friend and touched her in a way she shouldn't have. There were four of us who visited him, and when we left he was unconscious and duct-taped to his ceiling.

You duct-taped him to the ceiling? I would have loved to see that happen.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned andrenalin as the cause of this enjoyment. There's been a lot of "but they deserve it" sentiments here, but when it comes down to it, I'm willing to bet the real reason people enjoy fighting is the pure physical rush brought on by the fight or fight reaction.

I don't get what it is that makes people feel they should put themselves in imminent danger of getting the shit beat out of them AND break the law just so they can exact some revenge.

As far as the law is concerned, it doesn't fucking MATTER if someone deserves to be punished, YOU don't have the right to issue that punishment and decide its limits. And that's about how it should be; no one should be able to decide if they've been victimized bad enough to hurt someone else without consent from an authority, period.

InnerBrat wrote:I'm surprised no one's mentioned andrenalin as the cause of this enjoyment. There's been a lot of "but they deserve it" sentiments here, but when it comes down to it, I'm willing to bet the real reason people enjoy fighting is the pure physical rush brought on by the fight or fight reaction.

Agreed, but after some time it splits down and you get used to it. You know, fighting someone who is outclassed by you is not fun, its like breaking the neck of a bird you allredy have in your hand.

Ok, this is now my point of view on these things.

Getting into a fight can happen through multiple events. And usually you have after the initial trigger, which tells you that fighting will start, some choices to break off. You can run, let others do the work or surrender and blow the dick of the offender...you know. The shit things...

I fight. I live for it, and i dont just say that. Dont ask me why i choosed that path. I am not overly aggressive, i am not a psycho. I trained in Martial arts since i was 10, my father wanted me to learn from him, after four years i changed from Tea Kwon Do to Traditional Kung Fu. Seven years later i joined the military. And i am still doing my duty. 6 years now.

I see myself as a warrior. You ask "Huh? what the fuck...?". My whole life centers around combat in one form or another.
Am i a dumb brute? No. I was 13 years in school and i had very good grades. But i have no hang for studying.

Long story eh? And why did i tell you this? Because i thought some background on my views could be nice...

I had many fights. Not sparring, but those fights Aerius described so nicely.
I never looked for them, but i also never turned them down. For me its an experience. Looking for someone equal to fight.
And if you find one, its better than sex. Its not like you have pleasure in the very moments you fight, but the emotional sensation is surpassing everything sex could offer. This is different for everyone of course, and i am sure not even a handful will share this with me.

For me it is a focussing of mind, i can only be sure to reach in this setting.
The thoughts blank out, adrenaline starts rushing in. Everything blurs out and you only concentrate on your opponent...and if you are the last one standing, all is streaming back in. The fear, the pain, the easement, the feeling of being the better one. THIS is better than sex. This moment when all is over...

But there must be a reason to fight. Self defense, or in defense of others. There is no excuse to beat someone up, just to see him suffer. And even with a reason, you have to respect and honour your opponent. That is at least what i feel about it.

Of course, there are exceptions. Like the exception Metrion Cascade stated. If that happend to me in any form i would have crippled him. So he would suffer for the rest of his life...
I did this once after something happened to a friend of mine. And i would do it again, even if jail would await me. This is called loyality.

Btw. no matter how good you are, being in a fight means you will get hurt too. And no matter how god this one moment will ever be, if all the leaves you only the pain remains... You, your bed, the night and the pain....

Lagmonster wrote:I don't get what it is that makes people feel they should put themselves in imminent danger of getting the shit beat out of them AND break the law just so they can exact some revenge.

As far as the law is concerned, it doesn't fucking MATTER if someone deserves to be punished, YOU don't have the right to issue that punishment and decide its limits. And that's about how it should be; no one should be able to decide if they've been victimized bad enough to hurt someone else without consent from an authority, period.

I have a very extreme way of thinking about some things. As i may respect the law as something which can and will take me away from my friends and my familiy, restricting my course of action, i do look down on the concept of law.

Law is for the weak, the ones who got harrased, killied, raped, whatever.
But law opens holes which are exploited by the weak, to gain acces to priveleges only the strong should have access to.

Of course you will say what an asshole i am and that i see myself as one of the strong and how i would change my view if i was one of the weak...and i would agree, because in our society now as it is, we may have the concept of law, but we lost the concepts of honour, respect and the fact that might comes with burdens and obligations.

But i live in a dream world anyway.

Oh, and revenge is a powerful feeling only few can contain. Stronger than love if you ask me.

P.S. Strong does ,in this context, not only stands for the physically strong.

CRUCIBLE wrote:I have a very extreme way of thinking about some things. As i may respect the law as something which can and will take me away from my friends and my familiy, restricting my course of action, i do look down on the concept of law.

So, the only reason you don't go about doing whatever it is that you please is the fear of getting caught?

Of course you will say what an asshole i am...

You're an asshole.

...and that i see myself as one of the strong and how i would change my view if i was one of the weak...and i would agree, because in our society now as it is, we may have the concept of law, but we lost the concepts of honour, respect and the fact that might comes with burdens and obligations.

So, in your world you'd stride through the streets while peasants threw rose petals at your feet, and you'd beat up everyone who dared challenge your masculine might in the Gladiatorial Circle of Death, and then whine if someone pulled a gun on you instead of fighting you 'with honor', but you'd probably just turn it all around and deflect the bullets with your chest hair, and then strangle them with your prehensile fifteen-inch penis. What are you, fifteen?

CRUCIBLE wrote: I have a very extreme way of thinking about some things. As i may respect the law as something which can and will take me away from my friends and my familiy, restricting my course of action, i do look down on the concept of law.

Law is for the weak, the ones who got harrased, killied, raped, whatever.
But law opens holes which are exploited by the weak, to gain acces to priveleges only the strong should have access to.

Of course you will say what an asshole i am and that i see myself as one of the strong and how i would change my view if i was one of the weak...and i would agree, because in our society now as it is, we may have the concept of law, but we lost the concepts of honour, respect and the fact that might comes with burdens and obligations.

But i live in a dream world anyway.

Oh, and revenge is a powerful feeling only few can contain. Stronger than love if you ask me.

P.S. Strong does ,in this context, not only stands for the physically strong.

Okay...so you like fighting...some people do.

But to go that the weak obey the laws and the strong do what they will

Amazing I don't go out...see some schmuck in a thousand dollar suit, break his neck in a dark alley and take what is rightfully mine...damn the law

Because your first statement is about defense, your second is nothing more then celebrating long dead time, when guns didn't exist.

So laws...a set of codes to uphold...much like many a warrior code, is now a defining point of the weak?

Nobody ever fights with me, ever, is it me or something? I know most of my friends, have all one time or another had someone wanting to pick a fight with them.

Oh wait once when I was 15 and still kinda shrimpy, this huge drunk dude I knew from highschool wanted to fight with me, I never did fight him though I was ready to take this coca cola bottle and break it on his face, I think if I saw him today I'd do bad things to him if I had the opportunity.
I'm really pissed at that now when I remember it, what a fucking douchebag.

Bob the Gunslinger wrote:

Metrion Cascade wrote:

Bob the Gunslinger wrote: And what was that?

It involved a sedative in my drink and some places on my body I didn't invite him to.

I hope you crippled him.

Actually I did.

And I'm not saying that my enjoyment was right or that I would recommend looking for opportunities to beat the crap out of people. But that is what I felt.

Enforcer Talen wrote:

Metrion Cascade wrote:The only thing I've ever enjoyed more than any given sex act was the time I got to beat a guy to within an inch of his life knowing the cop present was looking the other way. The guy really deserved it, and I really deserved to do it. Having that kind of power over someone (and then watching them get arrested) is better than anything else. And I got a very sexual high from it to boot.

A close second to sex is Battlestations breakfast. Anyone who's gone through Navy bootcamp knows what I mean. Battlestations is an all-night PT marathon (on no sleep) that involves the laser shooting range, swimming, hauling dummies, and running several miles with a shitload of gear on your back. Then when it's over, they file you into the chow hall and give you all the food you can stand. It's like eating stoned (I've heard). The food isn't all that special, but you're really hungry and really exhausted, so it tastes great.

I had two or three personal pizzas doused in hot sauce, a few plates of pancakes, bacon, scrambled eggs, corned beef hash, like four glasses of Coke, and donuts. Heavenly.

we ought to hang out sometime. I empathize completely.

we had warriors breakfast, which is similar. marines were throwing up for the rest of the day. . .

-considers- have to you talked to the mess yet? I may be missing something, but military usually get to join it. ..

Is membership still open?

InnerBrat wrote:I'm surprised no one's mentioned andrenalin as the cause of this enjoyment. There's been a lot of "but they deserve it" sentiments here, but when it comes down to it, I'm willing to bet the real reason people enjoy fighting is the pure physical rush brought on by the fight or fight reaction.

I'm sure that's at the very least a big part of it if not the whole basis for the 'rrush.'

I could tell a few tales of my own, and even more that arent strictly mine.

Thanks to the way things often seem to go in this Scottish excuse for a redneck town, I've been jumped on a few occasions. I've had to defend myself, and that's often left someone else on the ground, only a sadist would take pleasure in that. I've spent a long time training to be able to defend myself, but I always regret when I need to put it into practice.

Some of the others that I've known here have been less so, at both ends of the scale. There are those who enjoy fighting, they're usually to be found trying to count their teeth in the street when they run into someone who has no time for juvenile macho bullshit. At the other end of the scale, I've known more than a few who have been willing to put their skills to use dealing with situations, they usually take no pleasure in using violence, but do when they feel it's justified.

They're definetly the scarier end of the spectrum.

Basically, for those who are going all macho here, try to remember, there is ALWAYS someone bigger badder and better than you out there. Keep fucking about and probability dictates sooner or later you'll fuck with the wrong person.

Lagmonster wrote:As far as the law is concerned, it doesn't fucking MATTER if someone deserves to be punished, YOU don't have the right to issue that punishment and decide its limits. And that's about how it should be; no one should be able to decide if they've been victimized bad enough to hurt someone else without consent from an authority, period.

Do you live in a generally lawful environment?

Law is for the weak, the ones who got harrased, killied, raped, whatever. But law opens holes which are exploited by the weak, to gain acces to priveleges only the strong should have access to.

We already had that. It was called the Dark Ages.

Ghost Rider wrote:
But to go that the weak obey the laws and the strong do what they will

Obligation and burden.

Amazing I don't go out...see some schmuck in a thousand dollar suit, break his neck in a dark alley and take what is rightfully mine...damn the law

Wouldnt he be one of the strong?

Because your first statement is about defense, your second is nothing more then celebrating long dead time, when guns didn't exist.

Yep, honour and respect is dead. Thank you. And shouldnt we celebrate something that sets us apart from psychopathics who kill and hurt just for their pleasure?

So laws...a set of codes to uphold...much like many a warrior code, is now a defining point of the weak?

Obligation and burden. That is something that should be there to prevent this.

Dont try to mix laws with a set code, it is by the definition of the word close, but if you look at the historical meaning far off.

Lagmonster wrote:
So, in your world you'd stride through the streets while peasants threw rose petals at your feet, and you'd beat up everyone who dared challenge your masculine might in the Gladiatorial Circle of Death, and then whine if someone pulled a gun on you instead of fighting you 'with honor', but you'd probably just turn it all around and deflect the bullets with your chest hair, and then strangle them with your prehensile fifteen-inch penis. What are you, fifteen?

Lol, nice. Why did you bring this down to a penis comparison?

Ok, trying to discuss a vague concept i have in my head with you.

Nothing is predefined, neither the strong nor the weak. You have to do something, to work to get better. No betrayal, no schemes, no trickery, no illusions to rise up in "ranks". Just competence.
Those who are strong have the obligation to protect the weak.

If you think this is allready in place.. think again.

Again, this would be a dreamworld for me. I am adaptable enough to survive in this world mate, so i don a bulletproof vest and i am still fine with the standard condoms, sadly no need for XXL ones.

Take it easy mate, my vision is not build on dominance, but on righteousness.

CRUCIBLE wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:
But to go that the weak obey the laws and the strong do what they will

Obligation and burden.

So anyone who obeys laws are weak now?

CRUCIBLE wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:
Amazing I don't go out...see some schmuck in a thousand dollar suit, break his neck in a dark alley and take what is rightfully mine...damn the law

Wouldnt he be one of the strong?

No, he's killer who feels that might makes right because he doesn't see anything beyond his two hands.

CRUCIBLE wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote: Because your first statement is about defense, your second is nothing more then celebrating long dead time, when guns didn't exist.

Yep, honour and respect is dead. Thank you. And shouldnt we celebrate something that sets us apart from psychopathics who kill and hurt just for their pleasure?

But as the last statement I made... you replied then he is one of the strong.

CRUCIBLE wrote:

Ghost Rider wrote:
So laws...a set of codes to uphold...much like many a warrior code, is now a defining point of the weak?

Obligation and burden. That is something that should be there to prevent this.

Dont try to mix laws with a set code, it is by the definition of the word close, but if you look at the historical meaning far off.

Now you're bandying your poetic phrases that ancient codes are something that they always were.

They were laws to prevent him from killing someone...unless you want to say they were some ancient rite that made them protect the weak for some ther reason?

Enforcer Talen wrote:

Metrion Cascade wrote:The only thing I've ever enjoyed more than any given sex act was the time I got to beat a guy to within an inch of his life knowing the cop present was looking the other way. The guy really deserved it, and I really deserved to do it. Having that kind of power over someone (and then watching them get arrested) is better than anything else. And I got a very sexual high from it to boot.

A close second to sex is Battlestations breakfast. Anyone who's gone through Navy bootcamp knows what I mean. Battlestations is an all-night PT marathon (on no sleep) that involves the laser shooting range, swimming, hauling dummies, and running several miles with a shitload of gear on your back. Then when it's over, they file you into the chow hall and give you all the food you can stand. It's like eating stoned (I've heard). The food isn't all that special, but you're really hungry and really exhausted, so it tastes great.

I had two or three personal pizzas doused in hot sauce, a few plates of pancakes, bacon, scrambled eggs, corned beef hash, like four glasses of Coke, and donuts. Heavenly.

we ought to hang out sometime. I empathize completely.

we had warriors breakfast, which is similar. marines were throwing up for the rest of the day. . .

-considers- have to you talked to the mess yet? I may be missing something, but military usually get to join it. ..

Sounds like fire camp breakfast, ummm, 24 hours of dust, and ash, and then food, and sleep.....

really strange this one rancher brought in 8 sides of beef to the fire camp once...

Xisiqomelir wrote:Do you live in a generally lawful environment?

I live in a place where the law works to punish people who think it's a good thing to beat the fuck out of someone for any reason. That's pretty much the whole point.

CRUCIBLE wrote:Lol, nice. Why did you bring this down to a penis comparison?

You're talking Almuric, lad. When you hear kids talking about hero-worship and puff out their chests and march around on top of the play structure proclaiming themselves king, they look and sound stupid at best, bullies at worst, not practitioners in a glorified and ancient tradition. In short, they sound like they're challenging everyone to a dick-measuring contest.

When you get a bit older, you'll realize that people actually grow out of your frame of mind or they get shunned by normal society as throwbacks and, often, get jailed or killed because they haven't learned how to behave like a civilized individual.

Nothing is predefined, neither the strong nor the weak. You have to do something, to work to get better. No betrayal, no schemes, no trickery, no illusions to rise up in "ranks". Just competence.

Try to stay on track: We're talking about beating the fuck out of someone. As far as I could tell, you were trying to get across the concept that people should a) not use the law, but rely on heroes to lead them, heroes who had a duty to judge and beat the fuck out of transgressors for some reason, and b) have 'honour', which is another word for "an adherence to rules which we agreed on so that you won't use your brains to get ahead of me via being clever".

Those who are strong have the obligation to protect the weak.

Of course, it hasn't occurred to you that distinctions of 'strong' and 'weak' are completely irrelevant when you own a gun. Technology is a great equilizer that makes all your warrior code fantasy completely pointless. You STILL haven't explained why someone should feel good about hurting people, or why it's wrong to obey the law concerning being a vigilante.