Is Bush Fucked?

[SirNitram]

either way, if they don't vote or they vote for nader they're effectively giving their vote to bush. That means one more vote that's not going to Kerry. Third parties simply don't have enough support behind them to be practical when nominating major officials.

What is with this "A vote for [insert meaningless candidate] is a vote for Bush nonsense. If someone isn't voting for Kerry or Bush, they're not voting for Kerry or Bush.

Pattern recignition. Third party candidates never have a very good showing in Presidential elections, and generally just erode the base for the two primary candidates.

[Master of Ossus]

Pattern recignition. Third party candidates never have a very good showing in Presidential elections, and generally just erode the base for the two primary candidates.

So... that means someone voting for a third party is voting for Bush... how?

[SirNitram]

Pattern recignition. Third party candidates never have a very good showing in Presidential elections, and generally just erode the base for the two primary candidates.

So... that means someone voting for a third party is voting for Bush... how?

Generally, an incumbant will have enough mindless drones of his party voting for him that the middle of the ground needs to actually vote for the other guy to get him out. Come now, this isn't rocket science. It'd be a wonderful shiny happy world if we didn't need to choose the lesser of two evils, but the world is not full of shiny happy people(Unless you live in North Korea.).

[Alyrium Denryle]

either way, if they don't vote or they vote for nader they're effectively giving their vote to bush. That means one more vote that's not going to Kerry. Third parties simply don't have enough support behind them to be practical when nominating major officials.

And that attitude is why.

[Gil Hamilton]

What is with this "A vote for [insert meaningless candidate] is a vote for Bush nonsense. If someone isn't voting for Kerry or Bush, they're not voting for Kerry or Bush.

Effectively, they are. It's a two party system, the only candidates that can win are Kerry and Bush.

[Darth Wong]

From where I sit, Kerry's campaign appears to be "Not Bush".

That's a marked contrast to the current campaign in Canada which, regardless of whether you despise the various parties, breaks down along very clear ideological lines.

[Howedar]

Thank the Democrats for once again nominating someone who will actually have a challenge in facing Bush. If this sniveling weasel is the best the Democrats can put forth, then I blame them if we get four more fucked up years of Bush.

No kidding, it amazes me that Kerry isn't kicking the shit out of Bush right now.

[JME2]

Thank the Democrats for once again nominating someone who will actually have a challenge in facing Bush. If this sniveling weasel is the best the Democrats can put forth, then I blame them if we get four more fucked up years of Bush.

I concur; Kerry needs to get off his ass and nail this sucka'.

[Stormbringer]

Thank the Democrats for once again nominating someone who will actually have a challenge in facing Bush. If this sniveling weasel is the best the Democrats can put forth, then I blame them if we get four more fucked up years of Bush.

No kidding, it amazes me that Kerry isn't kicking the shit out of Bush right now.

The fact that he's doing his damnedest to stay on both sides of the issue is killing him. He's given the impression (and I have to say, I think it's an accurate one) that he's an oppurtunists that won't pick anything to stand on with out an overwhelming majority. His absolutely pathetic and dickless attempts to stay on both sides of the issue or the simple spouting a few buzzwords in leiu of a stance are hurting him. He's given Bush the iniative by trying to stay low and not offend any one.

And that only works well if Bush is in trouble. Right now he is, but don't count on it staying that way.

[Darth Wong]

Howard Dean looks better and better in hindsight every day.

[SirNitram]

Howard Dean looks better and better in hindsight every day.

Oh, but Kerry was so 'electable'. He'll 'appeal to the middle'.

[Howedar]

Howard Dean looks better and better in hindsight every day.

God damn, don't remind me.

At least he had the balls to say what he thought. Or to even think.

[Stormbringer]

Howard Dean looks better and better in hindsight every day.

Not really, he came out and said his kooky shit (and I'll admit some reasonable stuff too) out loud. That is not a better choice to me, hind sight or no.

[Natorgator]

What is with this "A vote for [insert meaningless candidate] is a vote for Bush nonsense. If someone isn't voting for Kerry or Bush, they're not voting for Kerry or Bush.

If Nader hadn't run in 2000 Gore would have gotten most of his votes and Bush would not be president right now.

[Master of Ossus]

Generally, an incumbant will have enough mindless drones of his party voting for him that the middle of the ground needs to actually vote for the other guy to get him out. Come now, this isn't rocket science. It'd be a wonderful shiny happy world if we didn't need to choose the lesser of two evils, but the world is not full of shiny happy people(Unless you live in North Korea.).

Again, though, how does that mean that not voting for Kerry is voting for Bush, even if you don't vote or choose a third party candidate? By voicing one's displeasure in BOTH parties, one isn't voting for either one of them.

BTW, if there are mindless incumbent-voting drones, where are all of the mindless anti-incumbency drones?

[Stormbringer]

Generally, an incumbant will have enough mindless drones of his party voting for him that the middle of the ground needs to actually vote for the other guy to get him out. Come now, this isn't rocket science. It'd be a wonderful shiny happy world if we didn't need to choose the lesser of two evils, but the world is not full of shiny happy people(Unless you live in North Korea.).

Again, though, how does that mean that not voting for Kerry is voting for Bush, even if you don't vote or choose a third party candidate? By voicing one's displeasure in BOTH parties, one isn't voting for either one of them.

Frankly, it just the two party drones deciding that if you're not voting for US you're voting for THEM. Never mind the actual facts, it's just a pattern for people.




Why do I have visions of Kang and Kodos right now?

[JME2]

Howard Dean looks better and better in hindsight every day.

Not really, he came out and said his kooky shit (and I'll admit some reasonable stuff too) out loud. That is not a better choice to me, hind sight or no.

Does that include the Confederate-pickup trucks bit too?

[Illuminatus Primus]

Howard Dean looks better and better in hindsight every day.

Not really, he came out and said his kooky shit (and I'll admit some reasonable stuff too) out loud. That is not a better choice to me, hind sight or no.

What kooky shit? He was slammed for being zealous in manner (i.e., subjective aesthetic horseshit like "not seeming Presidential") at a campaign rally. Beyond that he was just character attacked on the basis of subjective "vibes" and other bullshit and broken-record whoring of comments like his "Confederate flag" statement. Which was hardly unreasonable, or honestly insensitive to anyone, if one manages to look at the actual substance of it, but that won't stop people from making up shit retroactively.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Anyone who acts like the "two party system" doesn't have to be so are clueless as to political realities, in fact directly attributable to the form of the government created by the Constitution. Don't like it? Well then I suppose you'd prefer responsible government.

[JME2]

Howard Dean looks better and better in hindsight every day.

Not really, he came out and said his kooky shit (and I'll admit some reasonable stuff too) out loud. That is not a better choice to me, hind sight or no.

What kooky shit? He was slammed for being zealous in manner (i.e., subjective aesthetic horseshit like "not seeming Presidential") at a campaign rally. Beyond that he was just character attacked on the basis of subjective "vibes" and other bullshit and broken-record whoring of comments like his "Confederate flag" statement. Which was hardly unreasonable, or honestly insensitive to anyone, if one manages to look at the actual substance of it, but that won't stop people from making up shit retroactively.

Alas, since we live in a world that thrives on sleaze and scandal, the media twisted it all around and now we're stuck with a Mass. Democrat who isn't doing shit and will probably end up fucking us over for another 4 years.

[Stormbringer]

What kooky shit? He was slammed for being zealous in manner (i.e., subjective aesthetic horseshit like "not seeming Presidential") at a campaign rally. Beyond that he was just character attacked on the basis of subjective "vibes" and other bullshit and broken-record whoring of comments like his "Confederate flag" statement. Which was hardly unreasonable, or honestly insensitive to anyone, if one manages to look at the actual substance of it, but that won't stop people from making up shit retroactively.

Actually, it has nothing to do with the "I have Scream Speech" so much as a lot of his polices were pretty much half baked, nice in theory, bad in practice ideas. I don't really give a damn about that stuff so much as the fact that Dean abandoned his fiscal responsibility stance in a way that was just plain dumb. I didn't like Dean from the start and it never had to do with the subjective bullshit you bring up.

[Illuminatus Primus]

But he was right about health care; and lest you forget, the Canadians pay less in government health care per capita than we do in Medicare/Medicaid.

Besides, the Republicans would never allow it to pass and he didn't have any other cash cows on the scale of that one. Besides, what's better, watching Bush flush the cash down the drain on every toy the Pentagon wants and subsidizing every local PD and whatnot because somehow that'll make a marked difference in "Homeland Security"?

[Joe]

You can bitch about the media derailing Dean all you want, but the fact of the matter is things only started to turn bad for Governor Freakshow once actual Democratic voters got their say. Apparently they didn't think he represented "the Democratic wing of the Democratic party" after all.

[Master of Ossus]

What is with this "A vote for [insert meaningless candidate] is a vote for Bush nonsense. If someone isn't voting for Kerry or Bush, they're not voting for Kerry or Bush.

If Nader hadn't run in 2000 Gore would have gotten most of his votes and Bush would not be president right now.

Again, HOW THE FUCK DOES THIS INDICATE THAT ANY VOTE NOT FOR KERRY IS A VOTE FOR BUSH?

[Illuminatus Primus]

You can bitch about the media derailing Dean all you want, but the fact of the matter is things only started to turn bad for Governor Freakshow once actual Democratic voters got their say. Apparently they didn't think he represented "the Democratic wing of the Democratic party" after all.

Too bad I did not say that, I was rebutting Stormbringer's accusation of "kooky shit" (which of course he wouldn't give examples and logic behind, but I digress).