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RogueIce wrote:I didn't like it all that much. The Upkeep thing pissed me off to no end. 12 units is a fucking Army? Jesus! If you sent in 12 units in War2 you'd be dead. I only played a LAN game with my friend and his brother, so I can't comment on the storyline aspect, but the play of it just annoyed me. That and the regenerating heroes thing. When they're dead they're dead damn it! Maybe in SP it's like that, and they just did it differently in MP. I hope so.

About the only really good part was playing a 3v1 us against the comps, and it took us a fuckin' hour to finally beat the bastard.

That and the very first time I played as the Night Elves, and my base got overrun, I had my giant fucking tree homebase walk over to my friend's base, which got a great reaction: "What the fuck? There's a walking tree in my base!"

That and I got to literally fight to the last. It was so much fun beating on my attackers with nothing but the Giant Tree of Doom!

Fewer units, which means you can pay more attention to them. In old War2, if you'll recall, in combat it wasn't very possible to use large groups of mages very easily, each require special attention, something you often couldn't give. It was too many units, each needing time. So, logically, reduces the number of units and it becomes possible. It's also made for some pretty good custom map; and as weak as the modding community is, there are so many great custom maps out there.

Grand Admiral Ancaris wrote:

Vympel wrote:That's just ridiculous. Warcraft III is a fucking old game, that's like putting a spoiler warning in a discussion about the plot of The Phantom Menace. Or Starcraft, for that matter.

Well Stravo, the starter of this thread, clearly hasn't played all the way through it yet.

Thanks for the lookout. I just skipped over the post as soon as I saw spolier material. I clearly want to relish and enjoy this storyline, Right now I'm at the mission where I have to hold off the mages for 30 minutes while the necromancer summons the demon of doom. It's really fun to play as the bad guys but I definately get a Zerg feel for the undead with the blight and the units resemble some Zerg units like the Abomination as the Ultralisk, Gargoyles as Mutalisks and Ghouls as Zerglings.

But then again on second thought the human side played pretty much like the Human side in Starcraft. Ah well.

Stravo wrote:

Grand Admiral Ancaris wrote:

Vympel wrote:That's just ridiculous. Warcraft III is a fucking old game, that's like putting a spoiler warning in a discussion about the plot of The Phantom Menace. Or Starcraft, for that matter.

Well Stravo, the starter of this thread, clearly hasn't played all the way through it yet.

Thanks for the lookout. I just skipped over the post as soon as I saw spolier material. I clearly want to relish and enjoy this storyline, Right now I'm at the mission where I have to hold off the mages for 30 minutes while the necromancer summons the demon of doom. It's really fun to play as the bad guys but I definately get a Zerg feel for the undead with the blight and the units resemble some Zerg units like the Abomination as the Ultralisk, Gargoyles as Mutalisks and Ghouls as Zerglings.

But then again on second thought the human side played pretty much like the Human side in Starcraft. Ah well.

Just a heads up(I don't think I'm spoiling) in the second Night Elf mission IIRC if you use a baslista on trees in a specific area (not much to look for after you get balistas, use owls) you get a Hydralisk!

Anarchist Bunny wrote:

Stravo wrote:

Grand Admiral Ancaris wrote: Well Stravo, the starter of this thread, clearly hasn't played all the way through it yet.

Thanks for the lookout. I just skipped over the post as soon as I saw spolier material. I clearly want to relish and enjoy this storyline, Right now I'm at the mission where I have to hold off the mages for 30 minutes while the necromancer summons the demon of doom. It's really fun to play as the bad guys but I definately get a Zerg feel for the undead with the blight and the units resemble some Zerg units like the Abomination as the Ultralisk, Gargoyles as Mutalisks and Ghouls as Zerglings.

But then again on second thought the human side played pretty much like the Human side in Starcraft. Ah well.

Just a heads up(I don't think I'm spoiling) in the second Night Elf mission IIRC if you use a baslista on trees in a specific area (not much to look for after you get balistas, use owls) you get a Hydralisk!

Cool! I'm really looking forward to playing as the elves. I hear interesting things about their set up that I would be curious to play out.

I too enjoyed the Single Player Campaign in WCIII, although with my comp and connection MP ran like shit, single unit RPG styles work ok, but anything with large unit counts(like my fav UMS SC type, madnesses) were impossible. I throughly enjoyed the little hidden jokes they sometimes included in the maps, a fun addition to the sometimes halarious unit quotes that have been arround in Blizz for a while. Like in the first Undead campaign, when you see two townsfolk fighting with others around them, pay close attention to their names, or in the prolouge, there are some trolls IIRC with a treasure called "Phat loot". There is more but I can't remember right now.

Anarchist Bunny wrote:I too enjoyed the Single Player Campaign in WCIII, although with my comp and connection MP ran like shit, single unit RPG styles work ok, but anything with large unit counts(like my fav UMS SC type, madnesses) were impossible. I throughly enjoyed the little hidden jokes they sometimes included in the maps, a fun addition to the sometimes halarious unit quotes that have been arround in Blizz for a while. Like in the first Undead campaign, when you see two townsfolk fighting with others around them, pay close attention to their names, or in the prolouge, there are some trolls IIRC with a treasure called "Phat loot". There is more but I can't remember right now.

You experience lag in MP in madness maps because they are madness maps. WC3 was built for lower unit counts, not the endless swarms of units, like starcraft. One major problem I've found with WC3 custom maps is that people make them as if it's still starcraft. In Starcraft there were countless fantastic Lord of the Rings and Silmarillion based maps; they were just fantastic! However, when people tried to make the same maps for WC3 it just didn't work. Instead of using new tools and finding new, better ways of making maps they stick with what worked in starcraft, as such people with anything but top of the line computers suffer.

Well after reading this thread and getting all nostagic and shit, plus having to go to my bank to deposit some checks, a bank a hop, skip, and jump away from a EB Games, I broke down and got The Frozen Throne and finally can control the most awsome unit in any FPS, the Pandarian Brewmaster.

Anarchist Bunny wrote:Well after reading this thread and getting all nostagic and shit, plus having to go to my bank to deposit some checks, a bank a hop, skip, and jump away from a EB Games, I broke down and got The Frozen Throne and finally can control the most awsome unit in any FPS, the Pandarian Brewmaster.

The Goblin Tinkerer is pretty cool also, but very little can compare with the utter coolness of a large, ale drinking panda.

Stravo wrote:Thanks for the lookout.

No problem man. Glad to be of whatever help I can.

I just skipped over the post as soon as I saw spolier material. I clearly want to relish and enjoy this storyline, Right now I'm at the mission where I have to hold off the mages for 30 minutes while the necromancer summons the demon of doom. It's really fun to play as the bad guys but I definately get a Zerg feel for the undead with the blight and the units resemble some Zerg units like the Abomination as the Ultralisk, Gargoyles as Mutalisks and Ghouls as Zerglings.

But then again on second thought the human side played pretty much like the Human side in Starcraft. Ah well.

There are similarities, there's no denying that. I thought the Undead had a distinct feeling of their own though. One thing I also love about the Undead is using my enemies casualties to strengthen my own forces. It's just so satisfying.

InnocentBystander wrote:The Goblin Tinkerer is pretty cool also, but very little can compare with the utter coolness of a large, ale drinking panda.

Haven't tried the Goblin Tinkerer yet, though they look highly amusing. The Pandarian Brewmaster is indeed cool though. Got one in the single player campaign after doing well in a secret level.

Grand Admiral Ancaris wrote:So nice of you to put in a Spoiler warning for those who haven't played through the game yet, Jackass.

You're right, that was an oversight and I apologise for it.

Sorry Stravo. I missed the part where you said "I only just started playing it..."

Stravo, after beating the game, let the credits roll. There's alittle surprise that Blizzard put in them that's pretty cool.

I don't want anyone revealing what it is.

Stofsk wrote:

Grand Admiral Ancaris wrote:So nice of you to put in a Spoiler warning for those who haven't played through the game yet, Jackass.

You're right, that was an oversight and I apologise for it.

Sorry Stravo. I missed the part where you said "I only just started playing it..."

No problem dude, I'm a big boy and can read where a thread is going and have the self control to stop reading.

Aya wrote:Stravo, after beating the game, let the credits roll. There's alittle surprise that Blizzard put in them that's pretty cool.

I don't want anyone revealing what it is.

Oh yeah! How could I forget that!? Stravo, definately let the credits roll! You won't regret it!

InnocentBystander wrote: Warcraft 3 is a fine game, and though the modding community doesn't hold a candle to SC's community (remeber some of those LOTR games? I still find myself playing them from time to time) it's still quite a good RTS.

World of Wacraft is simply a great MMORPG, hands down. And if you've played everquest, moreso. And, in case anyone is wondering; yes I'm in the beta and have been for almost a week.

The same with me, on all points. What characters do you play? Any interest in playing together here or there? Right now my main chars are a lvl 10 blacksmithing paladin on the beta server, and two slightly lower level PvPers: an undead leatherworking rogue and a tauren shaman.

Alan Bolte wrote:

InnocentBystander wrote: Warcraft 3 is a fine game, and though the modding community doesn't hold a candle to SC's community (remeber some of those LOTR games? I still find myself playing them from time to time) it's still quite a good RTS.

World of Wacraft is simply a great MMORPG, hands down. And if you've played everquest, moreso. And, in case anyone is wondering; yes I'm in the beta and have been for almost a week.

The same with me, on all points. What characters do you play? Any interest in playing together here or there? Right now my main chars are a lvl 10 blacksmithing paladin on the beta server, and two slightly lower level PvPers: an undead leatherworking rogue and a tauren shaman.

Well as of last night I was a level 14 Human Mage on the Beta server, an alchemist, herbalist and hobby enchanter, miner, and skinner. Lately my stomping grounds have been the Westfall. Look me up if you desire; Clron of the Lost Soldiers of Darkness. I do not play on the PvP server as of yet.

Can you keep us updated on WoW. The Guild i am with on other MMO's are gonna coem to WoW en masse but a lot depends on the quality of the game. We where butned badly by the shite Horizions and i'm very disillusioned by Lineage II. Also praying for a MMO that doesn't have large spiders.

Beat the game, skip the credits, use a cheat to beat the game on hard mode, then enjoy the normal credits plus Blizzard being an utter cocktease at the end.

I tried to beat that last level, but it was just too hard. Now all my files are on my old computer, and I don't feel like playing the whole game again. But for that special ending I heard about, maybe it is worth loading it back-up and playing through the whole game to get there.

TempestMagister wrote:I tried to beat that last level, but it was just too hard. Now all my files are on my old computer, and I don't feel like playing the whole game again. But for that special ending I heard about, maybe it is worth loading it back-up and playing through the whole game to get there.

Typing "allyourbasearebelongtous" == instant winna!

EDIT: Ammendum, type "Motherland Night Elf 10" should warp you straight to the last level, then AYB to credity goodness.

Anarchist Bunny wrote:Beat the game, skip the credits, use a cheat to beat the game on hard mode, then enjoy the normal credits plus Blizzard being an utter cocktease at the end.

Fortunately, Another company is kindasorta picking up the slack on that one.

Stofsk wrote:

TrailerParkJawa wrote:WC3 has a good single player story line. Wait till you see the movie at the end of the human campaign. WOW!

I disagree, and I can't see what everyone else sees in it.

[snip]

WC3 had so many problems IMO, from a storyline perspective. The central premise of the Human Campaign - that a pissy little death cult can bring an Empire to it's knees - just felt like a slap in the face. It didn't help any that almost EVERYONE in a position of authority in the Human empire was terminally idiotic. I felt no sympathy for the Alliance when it finally, deservedly, fell into ruin. None of the characters made me feel empathy for their plight. Contrast this with SC, where Arcturus slowly changes from being an out-of-the-blue revolutionary rescuer, who has a legitimate bone to pick with the Confederacy, to a backstabbing tyrant.

Nah, he was always like that the whole time. He just showed it more and more as the game went through.

Although his arbitrary abandonment of Kerrigan was really dumb.

The Undead didn't merit any sympathy anyway, being the fucking villains of the story. Moving on, then you have the Night Elves who's first act is to slaughter a Human encampment. Hey, why not? They're weaker than us and not expecting an assault. But when the Big Bad Demons pop up out of NOWHERE, let's hide like a bunch of fucking cowards.

Hey, they should've seen the "Keep off the Forest" sign!

Besides, If you had no way of facing those demons, you woudl've run, too!

I simply feel the storyline in WC3 was a piece of shit - considering the downright similarities it has with SC. I just think Chris Metzen hacked the story with a used formula - and from what I heard about the Expansion Pack, he did it AGAIN! The SAME fucking story, in Broodwar, is done in Frozen Throne! You have the New Human Nation trying to Handle the Big Bad Evil/And then Failing, miserably/Meanwhile the Big Bad Guy from before is now trying to become Uberking of the Universe/And by the end suceeds, making the ending real fucking Depressing... Jesus, would some new material be so fucking difficult to come up with?

I have to disagree on the FTF/BW comparison. The only real similarities were the ending. The Night Elf campaign was nothing like the Protoss, the "New Human Nation(Naga/Blood Elves) spent more time trying to survive than conquering anything, while Arthas was hanging by a thread for the vast majority of the Undead Campaign, being a virtual underdog, while he wasn't totally stuck out, it was a far cry of a scenario from Kerrigan's "Help-Them-out-Then-Backstab-'em-When-They're-Done.

And of course, the Orc Campaign was totally original.

I've seen some damn good WC3 maps from the fanbase. Who needs mods when you can put together Defense of the Ancients in the normal world editor?

I can recommend a Helm's Deep re-creation that's as close to flawless as you can get with that engine. Custom campaigns are a bit harder to come across, but then I haven't been looking very hard.

Warcraft.org has a large map database. The cross-indexing functions for related maps isn't done yet, and I don't know what the hell happened to the map ranking system that they used to have up, but the database is still worth a look.

Rogue 9 wrote:I've seen some damn good WC3 maps from the fanbase. Who needs mods when you can put together Defense of the Ancients in the normal world editor?

I can recommend a Helm's Deep re-creation that's as close to flawless as you can get with that engine. Custom campaigns are a bit harder to come across, but then I haven't been looking very hard.

Warcraft.org has a large map database. The cross-indexing functions for related maps isn't done yet, and I don't know what the hell happened to the map ranking system that they used to have up, but the database is still worth a look.

Yes, many many great maps. Some even use modifications, but RTS games really don't *need* modifications thanks to such powerful map editors. Of course the modifications that are out are simply astounding, primarily because there the few that do come out are done by the real diehards, no one else seems to have the stomach to finish a mod.

SAMAS wrote:Although his arbitrary abandonment of Kerrigan was really dumb.

On the contrary, it made perfect sense. Mengsk is trying to form an Empire, and he can't have a powerful-yet-moralistic telepath dogging his ascent to power (remember that Kerrigan was going to try to convince him to lay off the Zerg-clusterfuck of Tarsonis he was doing). He eliminated a potential rival. He was smart. He did to her exactly what she later did to him, before she knew anything about his true nature.

***SPOILERS***

I found the ROC Human campaign, both Orc campaigns, and the Blood Elf campaign interesting storyline-wise. The characters in the rest, however, have no depth or originality at all. The character development for most of the game sucked, and worse, some of them were cookie-cutter versions of SC characters. You could almost represent it mathematically: Sylvannas = Kerrigan + sympathy, Furion = Tassadar - coolness, Illidan = Zeratul + drug addict, etc. Arthas, I feel, does not represent Kerrigan. To me his closest parallel in any imaginary world is Feanor from The Silmarillion, and that makes him interesting - at least until he becomes Undead, whereupon he loses all personality and becomes a drone. The Blood Elf campaign features an interesting concept: Kael, the angry, conflicted, yet basically good-natured leader of a group of hopless exile addicts becomes Kael, the bland yes-man cackling sychophant.

Overall, I found the storyling of both Warcraft 3 games much less convincing and realistic than the storyline of the Starcraft universe. Starcraft featured characters you could actually care about or hate. Warcraft 3 feels like a bad Sailor Moon season.