Philippines Pulling Forces Out Of Iraq To Save Hostage

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-07-13 11:03pm

So in other words, a "successful" act by the terrorists would have brought absolutely no change whatsoever in the scheduled pullout. All the terrorists did was convince ignorant people that they were responsible for the pullout which sounds like a problem of the ignorant people; the Philippino government does not have to be penalized for the stupidity of others.

The terrorists may also have convinced themselves that they were responsible for the pullout - and therein lies the problem. I fully agree that the Phillipines was confronted with two equally unpalatable decisions: (A) pullout on time and risk seemingly legitimizing the terrorism, or (B) remain in Iraq for a period longer than they had intended in the first place. That doesn’t change the perception this will give the terrorists, however.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-07-13 11:05pm

Axis Kast wrote: The terrorists may also have convinced themselves that they were responsible for the pullout - and therein lies the problem. I fully agree that the Phillipines was confronted with two equally unpalatable decisions: (A) pullout on time and risk seemingly legitimizing the terrorism, or (B) remain in Iraq for a period longer than they had intended in the first place. That doesn’t change the perception this will give the terrorists, however.

Who gives a fuck what lunatics convince themselves of? They aren't rational thinkers anyways and its not like we are trying to win their hearts and minds.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-07-13 11:06pm

The Kernel wrote:
Axis Kast wrote: Would they have had an effect? Yes.

Would they have had the intended effect? No.
So in other words, a "successful" act by the terrorists would have brought absolutely no change whatsoever in the scheduled pullout. All the terrorists did was convince ignorant people that they were responsible for the pullout which sounds like a problem of the ignorant people; the Philippino government does not have to be penalized for the stupidity of others.

It's great for terrorist morale. "Hey, look we've successfully convinced another country to meet our demands! Allah is with us, brothers!"

All you have to do is keep the facts hidden from your followers.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-07-13 11:09pm

Who gives a fuck what lunatics convince themselves of? They aren't rational thinkers anyways and its not like we are trying to win their hearts and minds.

Did you seriously mean to ask this question?!

Listen, when terrorists think their methods of extortion work, they do it again.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-07-13 11:12pm

Axis Kast wrote: Did you seriously mean to ask this question?!

Listen, when terrorists think their methods of extortion work, they do it again.

You've got to be fucking kidding, these are people that are going to continue doing terrorist activities regardless of what we do. If they can convince people that the Philippines pulled out their troops because of this, then they can convince them that there are Muslim eating purple dragons roaming around the countryside. Should the US Army begin purple dragon patrol squads because terrorists are able to convince illiterate people in Iraq that they exist?

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2004-07-13 11:13pm

Look, Axis Kast, call me back in 6 months when the scheduled redeployment of additional Phillipine forces doesn't come through. Then we can discuss whether the Terrorists won or not.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-07-13 11:14pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Who gives a fuck what lunatics convince themselves of? They aren't rational thinkers anyways and its not like we are trying to win their hearts and minds.
Did you seriously mean to ask this question?!

Listen, when terrorists think their methods of extortion work, they do it again.

Just to be fair the incident with Nick Berg didn't stop the terrorists from doing it again.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2004-07-13 11:20pm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/ ... index.html

Looks like they are pulling out before their scheduled date.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-07-13 11:24pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/07/ ... index.html

Looks like they are pulling out before their scheduled date.

Okay, THAT is a mistake.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-07-14 12:17am

You've got to be fucking kidding, these are people that are going to continue doing terrorist activities regardless of what we do. If they can convince people that the Philippines pulled out their troops because of this, then they can convince them that there are Muslim eating purple dragons roaming around the countryside. Should the US Army begin purple dragon patrol squads because terrorists are able to convince illiterate people in Iraq that they exist?

Terrorists will not abandon a tactic after only a handful of failures. As is, they're trying to effect another Vietnam - that is, to achieve their objectives by bringing the Western public to oppose and eventually force their governments to withdraw from the region. But that's not to say that they will continue taking hostages if every time they do so, they get nothing in return. So far, terrorists have judged extortion to be effective; they've continued to strike loud chords throughout the world.

Look, Axis Kast, call me back in 6 months when the scheduled redeployment of additional Phillipine forces doesn't come through. Then we can discuss whether the Terrorists won or not.

What the fuck are you talking about?

The terrorists will conclude victory either way, right or wrong.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-07-14 12:23am

Axis Kast wrote: Terrorists will not abandon a tactic after only a handful of failures. As is, they're trying to effect another Vietnam - that is, to achieve their objectives by bringing the Western public to oppose and eventually force their governments to withdraw from the region. But that's not to say that they will continue taking hostages if every time they do so, they get nothing in return. So far, terrorists have judged extortion to be effective; they've continued to strike loud chords throughout the world.

So the solution is to do the opposite of what they want huh? Do you even realize how ridiculous what you are suggesting is? What we should do is ignore their demands entirely and not give them the sort of media attention they crave.

What the fuck are you talking about?

The terrorists will conclude victory either way, right or wrong.

Right, which is exactly why it makes no sense to try to hold up the scheduled troop pullouts.

GySgt. Hartman · Post by **GySgt. Hartman** » 2004-07-14 03:32am

The Philippinos would be hurting themselves most, should they really be giving in. The clearest signal they would send is that the Philippino government can be coerced by taking hostages, endangering Philippinos abroad all over the world.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-07-16 07:18pm

The Phillipines chose to pull out early because of the hostage situation.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2004-07-17 01:21am

the phillippines shouldn't be doing this. to capitulate to foreign terrorists only invites its own rebels within the nation to start taking hostages more frequently. a nation ealing with its own rebellions doesn't need to give them ideas.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-07-17 10:43am

the phillippines shouldn't be doing this. to capitulate to foreign terrorists only invites its own rebels within the nation to start taking hostages more frequently. a nation ealing with its own rebellions doesn't need to give them ideas.

Precisely my feeling as well.

And as for Kernel, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make. I agree that the Phillippines is between a rock and a hard place, confronted by a plethora of only bad choices.

Because terrorism has coincided with their leaving - even if it was planned long before -, the terrorists will conclude that their plans worked. If the Phillippines wishes to counteract this, it will be required to leave troops or send more - an equally unpallatable choice. This is especially true since the terrorism and hostage situation only stirred up Phillippine resentment at fighting "America's war."

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2004-07-17 11:47am

Well, I'm from the Philippines so here's my two cents...

The Philippine President's situation is a nasty one. She only has been newly elected and support for her isn't really universal and most people hate the USA and so if she does not obey the terrorist demands, most of the stupid people will get pissed and shit will happen (last time we had a bunch of destabilization attempts...Philippines really isn't that stable). So she has to give in to their demands to stay popular. But of course, giving in to terrorist demands is never a good thing, it only encourages Iraqi terrorists AND the terrorists over here to continue the shit they're doing. So it's a no-win situation and I say this stinks. And I really think it's a mistake for Gloria to give in to terrorist demands. But then again, the Philippines doesn't really contribute anything to the war effort, our troops can't do jack shit, honestly.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2004-07-17 01:12pm

The Philippine President's situation is a nasty one. She only has been newly elected and support for her isn't really universal and most people hate the USA and so if she does not obey the terrorist demands, most of the stupid people will get pissed and shit will happen (last time we had a bunch of destabilization attempts...Philippines really isn't that stable). So she has to give in to their demands to stay popular. But of course, giving in to terrorist demands is never a good thing, it only encourages Iraqi terrorists AND the terrorists over here to continue the shit they're doing. So it's a no-win situation and I say this stinks. And I really think it's a mistake for Gloria to give in to terrorist demands. But then again, the Philippines doesn't really contribute anything to the war effort, our troops can't do jack shit, honestly.

Precisely. Caught between their fury at the United States for obliging them to join a war in which they see no benefit, and unwilling to sacrifice for that cause, most Filipinos unfortunately see nothing wrong in giving in to the terrorists' demands. Unfortunately, that may come back to bite them when it comes to internal dissidents later on.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2004-07-18 04:06am

But the long term problems ain't GMA's (our president) concern though. This is her last term. And it seems like our insurgents are cooling down for the meanwhile (or that's how it seems like, anyway), though shit could start boiling again but that'd take a while and by then, GMA would no longer be the president.