Counterterrorism operation

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-02 11:26pm

Robert Walper wrote:I don't see the OP asserting or implying either side is not permitted to gather intel. Consulting or extracting US information sources would make sense and should be the first move on either side.

"Each side has no more intel available than the information generaly available to the public. "

Implying they have no data save what the public knows.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-02 11:28pm

Aww poops, I meant to say: Saying they have no data save what the public knows; and implying they can't gather data using sources such as the US gov (which would completely contradict the OP saying they have no data except what the public knows).

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-02 11:34pm

Basically Walper, they have to do it through their own tech and resources, not the resources of the US or others alike.

dragon · Post by **dragon** » 2004-10-02 11:39pm

So then what kind of intellingence gather capabilites does each side besides tricorders and ship scanners. The Imperials should have more exp as they have been hunting rebels for a while. And ST seems to have ahard time find escapde prisoner on their own ship.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-10-02 11:40pm

Techno_Union wrote:Basically Walper, they have to do it through their own tech and resources, not the resources of the US or others alike.

Either the starships in question are going to end up with more intel than the general public, or they will never find them and the entire thread is pointless. If the starships are permitted to gather intel, I don't see any reason why they cannot gain any from planetary sources, either directly or convertly.

Alferd Packer · Post by **Alferd Packer** » 2004-10-03 01:45am

Well, both ships should probably begin by doing high-intensity sensor sweeps of the areas where Osama would most likely be. They should look for underground weapons caches, bunkers, the like.

Beyond that, perhaps the E-E could use its cultural database to get people on the ground to do a more personal search. They would know how to dress, have a passable knowledge of local customs and beliefs, and presumably have most of the popular languages of region in the universal translator. They might have the advantage over the Neb-B in this regard, unless this counts as intelligence.

Saddam is a much easier prospect for both teams. Keep their eyes on his palaces and Baghad, and any time he's spotted, use their advanced computers to make sure it's really him and not a body double. Once they're sure it's him, send a shuttle down, set for stun, and go home.

In the end, both scenarios boil down to who gets lucky, the former moreso than the latter.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-10-03 09:10am

Well, AFAIK, the only things the general public knows is a) what they look like b) they probably hide out in Afghanistan and Iraq respectively.

With the TV visuals, I think my probe droid idea still holds water. The only other way to gather intel is human contact - I mean, all this talk about scanning, what should they scan for? All both sides have is some lowres video. Even if you can scan visually, probably through rock, from orbit or atmosphere no less, it's going to be pretty much impossible to get a match from above. If it was possible, sat photos and aerial recon would already have done the job.

Terr Fangbite · Post by **Terr Fangbite** » 2004-10-03 10:16am

In all I have read thus far it seems that Star Wars has the upper hand. The ability to use droids would be invaluable. However the only thing I see a problem with is when the terrorrists start taking pot shots at the flying objects in the sky.
The "Allah" program is a neat idea, but seriously, If I saw god and he said to me, "Hey, where's Osama Bin Laden", I'd start questioning alot of things at that point. Isn't the US government also doing the put spies among them? I'd think that the US cultural knowledge of the Terrorists would be better than the Star Trek one. However I am aghast that no one has stated the obvious. Star Trek's history is based on earth. Therefore all they have to do is just look in their history banks (which seem to cover everything according to the show), find out where he's been and then capture him there.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-10-03 10:35am

Terr Fangbite wrote:However I am aghast that no one has stated the obvious. Star Trek's history is based on earth. Therefore all they have to do is just look in their history banks (which seem to cover everything according to the show), find out where he's been and then capture him there.

Not going to work. The Star Trek timeline has diverged from our own.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2004-10-03 10:41am

Terr Fangbite wrote:However I am aghast that no one has stated the obvious. Star Trek's history is based on earth. Therefore all they have to do is just look in their history banks (which seem to cover everything according to the show), find out where he's been and then capture him there.

So what? Continuity has always been a slouch job in ST. According to TOS, the world ought to be recovering from the Eugenics Wars around now. According to VOY, the EW was so miniscule in influence that it wasn't even seen or referred to when the crew went back to the late '90s. (IIRC the episode's name was "Future's End", it pains me that I can actually remember shitty little details like this...)

One thing that TOS "Space Seed" established was Spock's line "Records of that time period are limited" or something to that effect. I don't have the episode availble for convenience sake, and I'm most assured someone like Patrick Degan or perhaps even Darth Wong can give a more accurate quotation.

But in any case, why would a 24th C Starship have extensive - ie, more than just Encarta 2400 - records of a time period where, by at least TOS standards, the Earth was going through turmoil akin to a world war? There's also the other concern about Trek's side, which has nothing to do with their technological advantages or disadvantages, but everything to do with their motivation: namely, the Prime Directive. Not only would agreeing to assist the USA in its hunt for Uncle Osama be violating their first and foremost law, but by being a time travel situation and a past EARTH, the PD would be honoured to an greater degree. Can someone please explain why a Starfleet Captain will take on this mission?

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2004-10-03 12:04pm

This seems to boil down to which side is most likely to have the resources to locate the targets. Either side should be able to bag him after that.

Imperial methodology will be to capture some locals believed to be Al-Qaeda/Bathist sympathizers or agents and subject them to chemical interrogation as they did Leia in A New Hope.

Federation methodology will be to get a friendly government to hand them some prisoners and subject them to telepathic scan (surely a Sovereign-class starship has some Vulcans or Betazoids on board).

I suspect that Federation methodology will retrieve better information faster. Either way will probably takes months of working up the chain of lackeys, though.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-03 02:00pm

Robert Walper wrote:
Techno_Union wrote:Basically Walper, they have to do it through their own tech and resources, not the resources of the US or others alike.
Either the starships in question are going to end up with more intel than the general public, or they will never find them and the entire thread is pointless. If the starships are permitted to gather intel, I don't see any reason why they cannot gain any from planetary sources, either directly or convertly.

I'm not saying they can't gether intel, but they can't use sources like the US gov or other governments alike. It's supposed to be what they can do using their own resources. Or I've misinterpreted the entire thread?

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2004-10-03 02:35pm

Techno_Union wrote:
Robert Walper wrote:
Techno_Union wrote:Basically Walper, they have to do it through their own tech and resources, not the resources of the US or others alike.
Either the starships in question are going to end up with more intel than the general public, or they will never find them and the entire thread is pointless. If the starships are permitted to gather intel, I don't see any reason why they cannot gain any from planetary sources, either directly or convertly.
I'm not saying they can't gether intel, but they can't use sources like the US gov or other governments alike. It's supposed to be what they can do using their own resources. Or I've misinterpreted the entire thread?

According to the OP: "Each side has no more intel available than the information generaly available to the public." In other words, if that doesn't change, they don't have a chance is hell of finding the individuals. If that can change, then there's no reason why they cannot either directly consult governments or convertly extract data if and when they can.

Techno_Union · Post by **Techno_Union** » 2004-10-03 02:46pm

Robert Walper wrote: According to the OP: "Each side has no more intel available than the information generaly available to the public." In other words, if that doesn't change, they don't have a chance is hell of finding the individuals. If that can change, then there's no reason why they cannot either directly consult governments or convertly extract data if and when they can.

How about this Walper:

The Shadow, can either side use the resources of any government on Earth? Or do they have to rely on the information they can get?