Maul vs Vader

[Master Arachnos]

Vader vs Obi - ANH : 1 person gloating, 1 person trying to stall. It's hardly gonna be a quick fight.

Vader vs Luke - ESB : Vader fought 1 handed for the 1st part, why, because he was toying with Luke to demoralise him and trying to position him for the carbon freeze

Maul in TPM was IMO showboating, and as such paid the price for his overconfidence

Vader would own him, again IMO.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I don't see the issue, vader's part just aren't natural, I don't see any reason this is supposed to be debilitating, might give him in an edge infact.

He apparently didn't get that kind of cybernetics that's going to make him General Grievous or anything.

If Maul is close enough in power to Vader that he can't just do a trick on him (Vader definitely didn't try throwing furniture at Obi-Wan, nor did he do so during his second fight with Luke), then I think Maul's agility gives him a very good chance, even though he clearly isn't Vader grade in the Force.

For example, Count Dooku is clearly superior in his overall ability in the Force to either Anakin or Obi-Wan. But while he could just casually throw Anakin into a wall, he apparently can't do so as easily to Obi-Wan, so he has to wind up fighting him.

If duels are about Force abilities only, we won't ever get a duel. The first phase of the battle would be like Gandalf and Sauron in LOTR where they use LOTR's equivalent of the Force to TK away at each other, followed perhaps by Force lightning once the annoying saber is momentarily out of the way. Of course, the guy that's stronger would win without ever crossing blades. But we don't see that, at least not in the film. In the film, people only seriously try TK if one is clearly superior, so he's going to win almost no matter what the form of personal duel.

Darth Maul is pretty good, but he's still young. I doubt he's more powerful in the Force than the much more experienced Qui-Gonn. Besides, the relative age, experience and agility of the combatants were IIRC clearly stated as a factor in the novelization.

[Vain]

Note that when I say that I think duels between Jedi come down to who is stronger than the Force, I'm not talking about who can lift the most weight or make the longest stroke of Force lightning. What I think matters in these combats is how strongly attuned someone is to the Force. The fighter that's going to win is the one that, essentially, can look further into the future, IMHO. Remember that Jedi appear to have superhuman reflexes, not because their nerves or muscles react more quickly than normal people, but because they see events before they happen, and thus are already moving to respond to a stimulus before it's been applied. Regardless of the fact that Maul is physically more agile, Vader is always going to be one step ahead of him. Age and treachery and all that jazz.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Note that when I say that I think duels between Jedi come down to who is stronger than the Force, I'm not talking about who can lift the most weight or make the longest stroke of Force lightning. What I think matters in these combats is how strongly attuned someone is to the Force. The fighter that's going to win is the one that, essentially, can look further into the future, IMHO. Remember that Jedi appear to have superhuman reflexes, not because their nerves or muscles react more quickly than normal people, but because they see events before they happen, and thus are already moving to respond to a stimulus before it's been applied. Regardless of the fact that Maul is physically more agile, Vader is always going to be one step ahead of him. Age and treachery and all that jazz.

However, if the agility is high enough, Maul can, in theory, set up a pattern in which Vader has no good answer. He can see the pattern coming well enough, just that with his limited agility, he doesn't have enough options. Besides, again, I really doubt Maul is better in this field than the Jedi Master Qui Gonn either.

[Solauren]

Vader has done things with the Force that only pale in comparison to epic-Sith stuff.

Which are questionably canon at best.

You are calling the weather vane stunt in a novel questionably canon?

And let's not argue canon. The comics are not infinities, and it's not a video game mechanic.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Could this be a proof that Vader will kick Maul's ass?

Maul got mauled (forgive the pun) by inexperienced Obi-Wan Kenobi, while Vader had slaughtered every single fucking Jedi in the Star Wars galaxy.

[Stofsk]

Maul got mauled (forgive the pun) by inexperienced Obi-Wan Kenobi, while Vader had slaughtered every single fucking Jedi in the Star Wars galaxy.

Yeah but did he do it by hand? I can see Vader onboard an ISD blasting a planet that has a few jedi, or leading Stormtroopers into battle against Jedi, but killing every single one of them by a lightsaber? Eventually he'll miss and they won't, and that's the end.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Maul got mauled (forgive the pun) by inexperienced Obi-Wan Kenobi, while Vader had slaughtered every single fucking Jedi in the Star Wars galaxy.

Yeah but did he do it by hand?

Not sure, though, but I think Vader had been doing a lot of masturbation since he had lost Amidala.

I can see Vader onboard an ISD blasting a planet that has a few jedi, or leading Stormtroopers into battle against Jedi, but killing every single one of them by a lightsaber? Eventually he'll miss and they won't, and that's the end.

IIRC (I read somewhere, probably EU?) Vader single-handedly exterminate every Jedi. Correct me If I'm wrong, though.

[Jean Paul]

Maul got mauled (forgive the pun) by inexperienced Obi-Wan Kenobi, while Vader had slaughtered every single fucking Jedi in the Star Wars galaxy.

Yeah but did he do it by hand?

Not sure, though, but I think Vader had been doing a lot of masturbation since he had lost Amidala.

I can see Vader onboard an ISD blasting a planet that has a few jedi, or leading Stormtroopers into battle against Jedi, but killing every single one of them by a lightsaber? Eventually he'll miss and they won't, and that's the end.

IIRC (I read somewhere, probably EU?) Vader single-handedly exterminate every Jedi. Correct me If I'm wrong, though.

Assuming he had thirty years in which to do this extermination, and using the 10,000 jedi figure, and subtracting 188 (killed at geonosis).. it would take him killing the remaining Jedi at a rate of about 1 every single day for 30 years to exterminate them all. With the Jedi scattered and needing to be hunted down and killed, and with the possibility that Vader would be attacked by groups of maybe 2,3,4,10 Jedi at once,

I'm pretty sure he didn't waste them all by himself.

[Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman]

Yeah but did he do it by hand?

Not sure, though, but I think Vader had been doing a lot of masturbation since he had lost Amidala.

I can see Vader onboard an ISD blasting a planet that has a few jedi, or leading Stormtroopers into battle against Jedi, but killing every single one of them by a lightsaber? Eventually he'll miss and they won't, and that's the end.

IIRC (I read somewhere, probably EU?) Vader single-handedly exterminate every Jedi. Correct me If I'm wrong, though.

Assuming he had thirty years in which to do this extermination, and using the 10,000 jedi figure, and subtracting 188 (killed at geonosis).. it would take him killing the remaining Jedi at a rate of about 1 every single day for 30 years to exterminate them all. With the Jedi scattered and needing to be hunted down and killed, and with the possibility that Vader would be attacked by groups of maybe 2,3,4,10 Jedi at once, I'm pretty sure he didn't waste them all by himself.

[/quote]

Hmmm... never thought of that. So I guess the source I read is wrong. I guess Stofsk is right, then.

[Kurgan]

Note that when I say that I think duels between Jedi come down to who is stronger than the Force, I'm not talking about who can lift the most weight or make the longest stroke of Force lightning. What I think matters in these combats is how strongly attuned someone is to the Force. The fighter that's going to win is the one that, essentially, can look further into the future, IMHO. Remember that Jedi appear to have superhuman reflexes, not because their nerves or muscles react more quickly than normal people, but because they see events before they happen, and thus are already moving to respond to a stimulus before it's been applied.

I don't think I can agree with that last part. Sure, while it's a good general theory of Jedi reflexes, one has to take things like Force Speed (TPM) and Force Jump into account. No amount of future-viewing is going to allow a person to accelerate that fast or jump that high. You'd seriously injure yourself trying or fail and just look like an idiot. So the Force must in some way boost the person's physical prowess or at least appear to boost it with energy fields or something.

Likewise it allows a person like Yoda who is physically infirm so that he hobbles around with a cane to actually flip around like an acrobat and saber fight like a master.

[Kurgan]

Yeah but did he do it by hand?

Not sure, though, but I think Vader had been doing a lot of masturbation since he had lost Amidala.

*Make up your own joke about bionic hands and their inherent abilities...*


As to Vader killing all the Jedi himself, ANH has Obi-Wan "Certain Point of View" Kenobi saying that Vader "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights." So for all we know it was like this:

Empire: Hey pal, where are those Jedi at?

Vader: They went thata-way! *points*

Empire: Thanks pal. *fleet zooms off to battle*

*boom, crash, splat, zap, aiiiie!!!*

Empire: Well, glad that's over, here's your medal.

Vader: Wizard!!

[Vain]

I don't think I can agree with that last part. Sure, while it's a good general theory of Jedi reflexes, one has to take things like Force Speed (TPM) and Force Jump into account. No amount of future-viewing is going to allow a person to accelerate that fast or jump that high. You'd seriously injure yourself trying or fail and just look like an idiot. So the Force must in some way boost the person's physical prowess or at least appear to boost it with energy fields or something.

Likewise it allows a person like Yoda who is physically infirm so that he hobbles around with a cane to actually flip around like an acrobat and saber fight like a master.

I completely, 100 percent agree with everything you said about enhancing abilities. There are numerous examples of people using the force to enhance their physical prowess, and that will factor in to the combat, making the decisive factor still their attunement to the Force. Yoda is practically an invalid, but he is a devastating swordsman because he can call upon the Force to simulate athletic abilities that would be ludicrously beyond his natural capabilities at this point in his 900 year existence. This begs the question though: If Vader is so strong in the force, and if he's hindered by his prosthesis and armor and whatnot, why doesn't he use the Force to fly around and move like quicksilver? Short answer for me: He doesn't have to, and it's not his style. Vader clearly plays up on his image. (Black armor, cape, death's head mask? Yeah). He wants to be seen as unstoppable. People thinking you're invincible goes a long way toward making that a reality (note that this is not the same thing as *you* thinking that you're invincible . In the OT he tends to deal almost contemptuously with enemy combatants. He didn't draw his lightsaber to put down Solo, he toyed with Obi-wan, and Luke on a number of occasions, and the only time we really saw him straining was at the end of RotJ when he underestimated the ferocity of Luke's counterattack. I think that his foresight proves decisive in the vast majority of cases, making inelegant but otherwise useful maneuvers unnecessary. Vader would look like a clown running up walls and backflipping over people in that get-up. He clearly doesn't want that, and he is clearly powerful enough that he can make efforts to make his fighting style cool and intimidating. I am of the opinion that Vader would easily defeat Maul or Dooku or even Mace Windu in combat. I think Mace would last longer than either of the other two. The only Force users that are even in the running in a fight with Vader would be Palpatine, Yoda, and other Skywalkers (Luke). Vader killed Palpatine. How, if Palpatine was so powerful? Palpatine didn't forsee that decision. If we are to believe the EU, Palpatine could have just vaporized Vader with a thought, but it wasn't explodakinesis ability that decided that conflict (although it does a number on Vader in the long term) it was the fact that Vader was one step ahead of Palpatine and attacked him when he was vulnerable.