OK, I know that Saxton didn't authorize this in HIS ITW

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Its possible or even probable that this devicee was not destroyed when the shield generator was (the ITW book says that complex was 70 km in diamater - the blast was clearly not destructive enough to take it ALL out, since Han could be less than 100 meters away without getting fried by the blast.)

That complex was 70km in diameter?

The shield projector dish was nearly a kilometer in diameter, while the rest of the underground shield projector complex and generators spralled out in a 70 km diameter. The Rebels at the least destroyed the complex's means of projection, basically crippling it.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

The shield projector dish was nearly a kilometer in diameter, while the rest of the underground shield projector complex and generators spralled out in a 70 km diameter. The Rebels at the least destroyed the complex's means of projection, basically crippling it.

But to put in that kind of complex, they presumably had to uplift the ground. Why are the trees still there? Why didn't they remove the trees in a 70km diameter. It will be natural to do so when uplifting the Earth and good incidental protection against commando teams - extraordinary efforts would have been required to cover it up nicely with trees all over again.

[Rogue 9]

They didn't destroy the entire complex. Just the deflector dish and control bunker.

[Connor MacLeod]

The funny thing is that everyone actually seems to understand that Endor should have died. Just that for some reason people seem to throw the hierarchy out the window for this case.

I'm not neccesarily sure it HAD to have died. It might have gotten polluted and taken damage from the explosion (EG, momentum of impacts), but I don't think its possible for it to have been turned into a lifeless husk either (for the reasons I outlined above.) More like it was "brought back to life." through the efforts of the Rebellion and various sympathetic organizations (the Ho'Din, the Ithorians, etc.)

And alot of the opposition as I said comes from the fact that people don't believe the good guys will act like the bad guys. Not everyone idolizes the Empire like some on this board do, remember. (Frankly, I've been more fond of the Rebels than the Empire myself.)

As for throwing hierarchy out the window, wouldn't we have to do that for the holocaust theory as it stands now? Remember that if the DS2 exploded totally unimpeded, NOONE should have survived. Which means that we'd have to ignore the celebration, the fact that Han and Leia survived, etc. "throwing out the hierarchy" is a matter of perspective here, and most people arguing agianst it don't care about hte physics. (Including Lucas, I'd say.)

You know what I meant. If they got it off the portion facing the Death Star entirely, they got it off the moon. You are just stupidly twisting the quote, almost as if saying "under 12 miles" means the Executor can be one mile long.

And yet the quote itself remains very open ended regarding the fate of Endor. Which is the exact same poitn I have been (repeatedly) trying to make.

The only feeble explanations that immediately come to mind is:
1) The Death Star II is actually a very safe design, and in the event of an emergency can vent most of its energy in a harmless form, like neutrinos. It certainly had some to make such conversions than the DSI (you could see the destructive wave)

Which would require that:

a.) the device you propose is durable enough to survive the explosion (there's no reason to believe the debris is going to spontaneously convert itself into neutrinos, nor can any device perform this feat without surviving the explosion.)

b.) that all the energy from the explosion is sucked back into the device, including the kinetic energgy from the debris.

In short, not only would we would be seeing the same sort of "implosion" effect we get with the hyperspace wormhole (as well as seeing the debris halt in place, probably in orbit around the planet), but one would fail to understand how the station would blow up at all - surely any device such as that would be able to suck up the energy from the reactor BEFORE it blew up, thus sparing the station from destruction.

Either that, or you're basically proposing the entire station NDF'd in the process. Which is just as ludicrous (MUM anyone?)

2) As part of the design, virtually all of the remaining energy is designed
to be absorbed into the surrounding material with nearly perfect efficiency, thus the KE is it (after all, even air can absorb gamma rays after a short distance, creating the blast wave). One may be amazed at the efficiency of all this, but then, one has to be amazed at the efficiency of Imperial equipment in using unbelievable amounts of power and not let the tiny inefficiency in transfer bake themselves to death.

Which is possible and would spare the planet immediate irradiation. However, it doesn't save the planet from the debris (either as a solid mass or as vaporized matter - solid chunks will strike like asteroids and vapor will interact with the atmosphere in a way similar to ejecta.) However, not only would there be the Kinetic energy/momentum, but that debris would be superheated by the explosion as well (from the visiuals, most of the mass of teh station vaporized, and most of the rest would probably be at least molten to some degree) and still retain that energy when it impacts.

As I said, the energy still has to go somewhere, and all this does is having the mass of the station simply alters the form in which it strikes the planet. What this DOES do is that it makes it easier for the Rebels to deal with (debris moving at dozens of km/s rather than a massive dose of radiation moving at or near lightspeed.)

We discussed this one two years ago, and there wasn't a network in evidence. Let's try the repulsor delay idea for now.

Do you even recall an example of a single-generator planetary shield existing? All examples that come to mind immediately (Bothawui in the HoT duology, Coruscant in the X-wing series, and Ukio in TLC) have full planetary shielding composed of multiple generators (To be more specific, Ukio had 30 planetary shield generators, and the planetary shield generator facility taken out by Imperial agents on Bothawui protected an entire city - and that was only one section of the overall network.) By contrast, I cannot think of a single example of full planetary shielding being generated by a single generator, can you?

The real problem with planetary shielding comes from the fact that the energy absorbed by the shields gets dumped into the planet's interior (if ti works like the Hoth planetary shield, at least.) This means that there is only so much the planetary shield could absorb.

Besides, its also possible that the repulsor facility was destroyed along with the generator. I'm willing to bet that's what Curtis intended, anyhow (hence why the location for the repulsor and shield generator was the same.)

I know. I just can't understand this mentality either. Why must be Rebels be completely white and pure?

Wow, when did I say they were "completely white and pure?" (and you accuse me of twisting words!) There can be a number of non-altruistic reasons why they would bother to do it:

1.) Salvaging. How much metal do you think would strike that planet, anyhow? That's free materials that don't have to be mined. If they remove most or all of the populace, they can bring in World-devastator like machines and clean it all up without worrying about the sapient population (or most of the Ewoks at least). Afterwards the planet can be terraformed and repopulated. By saving the Ewoks they can also claim to act in the "primitive native population's" best interests with regarding to the disposition (it would probably belong to the Ewoks in name anyhow.)

2.) Its good propoganda material. We know the Empire tried to spin-doctor the Endor thing (either by suppressing it or by blaming it on the Rebels), so why couldn't the Rebels do the same? And if they tried "heroically" to save the native populace from the devastation the Empire tried to wreak on the planet, don't you think that makes their case stronger? Especially since the Empire (or rather, the Emperor) deliberately placed the station in close orbit around Endor for that very reason (according to ITW:OT at least.)

On top of that, I find it not only ridiculous to assume the Rebels would have ZERO idea of the catastrophic consequences their own technology can have on an ecology (The Rebels aren't THAT stupid), but that not one WORD of the true fate on the Rebels side ever got out. That the people on the ground would be totally, completely unaware of the fact that a mass-extinction event was occuring all around them, and that noone in space would notice and not be affected. Short of executing or mind-wiping everyone, can they keep such a thing secret? And if it got out, it would damage the Rebellion grreatly (among its own members as well as among the neutrals.)

Besides, does it matter to anyone whether they do or not? The fate of the Ewoks is a minor aspect of the overall issue anyhow and can easily be conceded without affecting the overall argument one iota. And having the desturction averted long enough to evacuate everyone doesn't save the planet anyhow - impacts against the shields or repulsor are going to still do damage via conservation of momentum (the momentum of the impacts will be transmitted along the force fields to the generators, and from the generators into the planet), and holding that much mass above the planet is still going to block out sunlight. The only long term consequence it would avoid would be pollution.

[Old Plympto]

They didn't destroy the entire complex. Just the deflector dish and control bunker.

I always thought that the bunker was not a control bunker, rather another way into the deflector complex, perhaps for maintenance purposes. Based on Threepio telling them: "There's a secret entrance on the other side of the ridge.", I thought that from this entrance bunker, they walked kilometers to the deflector complex itself to plant the charges and get the hell out of there fast back out through the bunker.

I also thought that if there were dozens of these bunkers within the 70 km zone of the complex, each one of these would discharge some of the explosive force that originated from the complex itself kilometers away.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

In any case, there really was no debate to begin with, if you ask me (I am pro-Holocaust which is not so rare, the rarity is in how I like the Holocaust too - it is not only realistic, it brings some much needed depth to ROTJ and paints a realistic dark layer onto the Rebel Alliance for conning the poor Ewoks into getting their world towards a painful end).

Bullshit. The Rebels did no such thing. The Ewoks only helped the Rebels because C-3PO told them about what happened in ANH and TESB. Since when does telling the truth equate to conning someone? The Rebellion never distorted anything into making the Ewoks join them. The Ewoks volunteered to help the Rebellion. The Rebels didn't force the Ewoks to do shit. At any time the Ewoks could have gave up and quit on the Rebels. But did they? No. They stuck it out and helped the Rebels overcome the Imperials, and did so out of their own free will.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Bullshit. The Rebels did no such thing. The Ewoks only helped the Rebels because C-3PO told them about what happened in ANH and TESB.

From their only biased viewpoints and taking advantage of C3PO's now Divine Status. They probably never mentioned the part how none of this really has to do with the Ewoks, or that they are traitors to the government. Or that C3PO is light years from being a God.

And did you see how later Leia and Han tried to persuade the Ewoks?

The Ewoks volunteered to help the Rebellion. The Rebels didn't force the Ewoks to do shit. At any time the Ewoks could have gave up and quit on the Rebels. But did they? No. They stuck it out and helped the Rebels overcome the Imperials, and did so out of their own free will.

They volunteered. Which part did I say they were "forced?" They were duped into volunteering for something that had nothing to do with them and volunteering was hardly in their best interest. Do you think they were told everything? Such as how attacking the Imperials might mean the complete destruction of their tribe and their species, and when the Death Star blows up, their planet, including the Great Tree that they so love, would be dead?

If I give a stupid kid some candy and spoke gently with him, I can get him to go onto my car and thus kidnap him without a struggle. Are you going to seriously contend that the kid volunteered and thus it ain't my fault?

[IRG CommandoJoe]

From their only biased viewpoints and taking advantage of C3PO's now Divine Status. They probably never mentioned the part how none of this really has to do with the Ewoks, or that they are traitors to the government. Or that C3PO is light years from being a God.

I'd say that the Empire planning on destroying their planet after the DSII was operational pretty much involves the Ewoks, don't ya think? Biased viewpoint be damned, the Empire was going to blow them up.

And did you see how later Leia and Han tried to persuade the Ewoks?

After they already volunteered and included all of the Rebels into their tribe. Since they were tribe members, their judgment now actually carried weight. Before then, they were ignored.

They volunteered. Which part did I say they were "forced?" They were duped into volunteering for something that had nothing to do with them and volunteering was hardly in their best interest

Oh, yes, preventing another Alderaan wasn't at all in their best interest.

Do you think they were told everything? Such as how attacking the Imperials might mean the complete destruction of their tribe and their species, and when the Death Star blows up, their planet, including the Great Tree that they so love, would be dead?

Perhaps they were told that to make it seem like the more positive consequence of attacking, since the DS II would have blown Endor into itty bitty pieces later on had they not attacked.

If I give a stupid kid some candy and spoke gently with him, I can get him to go onto my car and thus kidnap him without a struggle. Are you going to seriously contend that the kid volunteered and thus it ain't my fault?

That's a false analogy. The Rebels weren't directly responsible for harming the Ewoks. Their "candy giving" was telling the Ewoks that they were better off fighting the Empire rather than standing aside and letting the Empire outright destroy them without any resistance. And there was no "kidnapping" on part of the Rebels.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I'd say that the Empire planning on destroying their planet after the DSII was operational pretty much involves the Ewoks, don't ya think? Biased viewpoint be damned, the Empire was going to blow them up.

1) The Rebels cannot possibly know that at the time.
2) Even if that was so, a quick Death to the superlaser would be far more merciful than the slow death of the Endor Holocaust.

After they already volunteered and included all of the Rebels into their tribe. Since they were tribe members, their judgment now actually carried weight. Before then, they were ignored.

You must have missed P.112-P.114 of the novelization. First the Rebels made the pitches, then a stupid Ewok spoke, and then they agreed to help. In fact, Chief Chirpa made the correct judgment at first.

Oh, yes, preventing another Alderaan wasn't at all in their best interest.

Replacing it with a slow painful death where they can reflect on it is in their best interest? Replacing it with watching their brothers die in cold blood (not really, as far as the Imperial legion is concerned, this is called Self-Defense).

Perhaps they were told that to make it seem like the more positive consequence of attacking, since the DS II would have blown Endor into itty bitty pieces later on had they not attacked.

Little itty bitty pieces in an eyeblink is merciful. Observing the slow death of your homeworld is not. And again, the Rebels could hardly have been certain at the time Palpy would have blown up Endor when he finishes his Death Star.

That's a false analogy. The Rebels weren't directly responsible for harming the Ewoks. Their "candy giving" was telling the Ewoks that they were better off fighting the Empire rather than standing aside and letting the Empire outright destroy them without any resistance. And there was no "kidnapping" on part of the Rebels.

The point in both cases is that someone was duped into volunteering without being let in on all the consequences the persuader knew, thus they were cheated.

[Connor MacLeod]

actually I'm inclined to agrere with IRG on this one Kaz. Its really reaching to say the Rebels "duped" - Threepio's Divine status is a non factor - he explicitly says its against his programming to impersonate a deity, so he cannot knowingly take advantage of that. (In fact, its likely he has to disabuse them of that notion.) And there is no evidence I am aware of that he used that influence to sway them.

In fact the novelization says this:

"This golden god, whose return to us has been prohpesied since the First Tree, tells us now he will not be our Master, tells us we are free to choose as we will-that we must choose; as all living things must choose their own destiny." - ROTJ novelization, page 114

Clearly, he did in fact NOt use his status in any way to persuade them. The Ewoks decided this willingly, and it was Wicket who persuaded them to join the Rebels (again, as per the novelization.)

EDIT: And what's this "slow painful death" shit? If the station exploded, they would have been wiped out almost instantly. Remember the quantity of energy we're talking about? Tens of billions of megatons is sufficient to superheat the atmosphere enough to sterilize all life on the planet and render any long term (or other) mechanisms of a mass-extinction event irrelevant. The output of the Death Star's explosion is MANY times greater than that.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

1) The Rebels cannot possibly know that at the time.

I thought they did know. When was the plan to destroy Endor revealed then?

But (and this is pure speculation) it seems like something they would say with their "biased viewpoint." So it's not entirely impossible that there could have been a coincidence that they told the Ewoks the Empire would destroy their planet when in fact they didn't know this.

2) Even if that was so, a quick Death to the superlaser would be far more merciful than the slow death of the Endor Holocaust.

Let me get your reasoning straight. Rather than sacrificing their planet and evacuating it, complete and total annihilation of the planet and all of its species is preferable?

You must have missed P.112-P.114 of the novelization. First the Rebels made the pitches, then a stupid Ewok spoke, and then they agreed to help. In fact, Chief Chirpa made the correct judgment at first.

I never read the novelizations. So I did miss it. Oops.

Replacing it with a slow painful death where they can reflect on it is in their best interest? Replacing it with watching their brothers die in cold blood (not really, as far as the Imperial legion is concerned, this is called Self-Defense).

Again, you prefer genocide and utter destruction of the planet rather than ecological ruins and evacuation of the species?

Little itty bitty pieces in an eyeblink is merciful. Observing the slow death of your homeworld is not.

ARGH!!! PROVE that it's better for a species to be OBLITERATED than SPARED.

And again, the Rebels could hardly have been certain at the time Palpy would have blown up Endor when he finishes his Death Star.

See my above speculation.

The point in both cases is that someone was duped into volunteering without being let in on all the consequences the persuader knew, thus they were cheated.

Yes! You're right! The Rebel scum inadvertently spared the Ewok species rather than let the DS II wipe it out! Those dirty rat bastards!!! Oh wait...

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Thanks for your support, Connor.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

actually I'm inclined to agrere with IRG on this one Kaz. Its really reaching to say the Rebels "duped" - Threepio's Divine status is a non factor - he explicitly says its against his programming to impersonate a deity, so he cannot knowingly take advantage of that.

It is against his programming, but the humans seem to be counting on it, like Luke, who tells him to threaten them with "his magic."

"This golden god, whose return to us has been prohpesied since the First Tree, tells us now he will not be our Master, tells us we are free to choose as we will-that we must choose; as all living things must choose their own destiny."

Yet the Ewoks were clearly seeing him as the Golden God, which played a role in their decision. Threepio obviously failed to show them he wasn't their Golden God. Just that he's not going to order them with his Golden God Authority to help the Ewoks.

EDIT: And what's this "slow painful death" shit? If the station exploded, they would have been wiped out almost instantly. Remember the quantity of energy we're talking about? Tens of billions of megatons is sufficient to superheat the atmosphere enough to sterilize all life on the planet and render any long term (or other) mechanisms of a mass-extinction event irrelevant. The output of the Death Star's explosion is MANY times greater than that

Point, though perhaps the backside might have lasted for awhile before the effects reach them for good (say a few seconds). Then at least count in the painful deaths as they charged the Imperials.

And they just clearly cleaned out any slim chance that their planet might be spared. Think on that too.

[Rogue 9]

Okay, I am failing to believe this. Kazuaki, you're honestly this desperate to make the Alliance look as bad as the Empire? Get this through your head. THEY WERE ALL GOING TO DIE ANYWAY AND THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO ABOUT IT. I'd at least want to take my killers with me; under the circumstances they did the best thing. I'd hardly call Wicket "a stupid Ewok" for wanting to resist the Empire, and I wouldn't call the initial decision of Chief Chirpa to just lie down and die the correct one.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I thought they did know. When was the plan to destroy Endor revealed then?

In the novelization, the Emperor gave the orders to destroy Endor if the shield went down only on P.148, when the battle already started. The "they planned to destroy Endor anyway" thing AFAIK was a new anti-Imperial slam incorporated in the new ITW. Honestly, it is virtually impossible for them to know the Emperor's plans at the time - in fact, IMO it is quite implausible they'd ever have found that one out for sure even after the Emperor's death.

But (and this is pure speculation) it seems like something they would say with their "biased viewpoint." So it's not entirely impossible that there could have been a coincidence that they told the Ewoks the Empire would destroy their planet when in fact they didn't know this.

There you go. That's the duping. If you intended to lie, just because it turned out your lie would become the truth does not mean you did not lie.

Let me get your reasoning straight. Rather than sacrificing their planet and evacuating it, complete and total annihilation of the planet and all of its species is preferable?

The Rebels would be lucky if they can save the Ewoks of Bright Tree village. They can watch in eternal guilt as the rest of the planet gets destroyed with more energy than the Sun puts out in at least 20 minutes!

Yes! You're right! The Rebel scum inadvertently spared the Ewok species rather than let the DS II wipe it out! Those dirty rat bastards!!! Oh wait...

Wrong, they inadvertently saved the Ewoks of one village (and maybe not all of them at that). As far as the available knowledge to them, however, they've ensured the Death of Endor and sent a bunch of unwitting Ewoks to die. If the Emperor wasn't going to destroy them before, now they are going to be destroyed.

[Connor MacLeod]

It is against his programming, but the humans seem to be counting on it, like Luke, who tells him to threaten them with "his magic."

"This golden god, whose return to us has been prohpesied since the First Tree, tells us now he will not be our Master, tells us we are free to choose as we will-that we must choose; as all living things must choose their own destiny."

Yet the Ewoks were clearly seeing him as the Golden God, which played a role in their decision. Threepio obviously failed to show them he wasn't their Golden God. Just that he's not going to order them with his Golden God Authority to help the Ewoks.

I see, so the only relevant part is referring to him as a "Golden God", even though the afroementioend "God" is telling them not to obey him but do what they choose to do instead (you know, since claiming to be a Deity goes against his programming?) What the FUCK kind of logic is that supposed to be?

Oh, and as for that that "They didn't tell them all the information" bullshit, need I remind you that any unaverted catastrophe the DS2's destruction would cause would ALSO kill the Rebel commandos? So obviously if they weren't killed, measures were taken to safeguard them AND the Ewoks, since you could not possibly save one without saving the other - not with the magnitude of energies we are dealing with. You can't trick someone about something that you already have to avert, can you?

Point, though perhaps the backside might have lasted for awhile before the effects reach them for good (say a few seconds). Then at least count in the painful deaths as they charged the Imperials.

Perhaps, but its doubtful. The "global firestorm" effect is triggered primarily by the heating of the atmosphere by ballistic impact ejecta moving at hypersonic speeds (Mike suggests about 5 km/s, but obviuosly a more violent impact means that ejecta is hurled up at much higher speeds.) - this heating effect occurs both when the ejecta goes UP and when it comes down.

And they just clearly cleaned out any slim chance that their planet might be spared. Think on that too.

How exactly? Anything that wipes out the population kills both the Rebel commandoes AND the Imperial prisoners on the planet. This did NOT happen. Obviously there WASN'T any sort of dire threat (not of the magnitude that the Emperor had planned.)

[Rogue 9]

The first Death Star was tested on the planet it was built around. It stands to reason that the second would follow suit.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Okay, I am failing to believe this. Kazuaki, you're honestly this desperate to make the Alliance look as bad as the Empire?

No, that would be too difficult for even the most ardent Imperial apologist to do. Rather, I just have an interest in making the Alliance not look totally white and pure.

Maybe I just don't like them very much - they caused a Galactic Civil War that killed hundreds of trillions, and I have no doubt we can all agree that their so-called alternative to the Empire stinks in practice.

Get this through your head. THEY WERE ALL GOING TO DIE ANYWAY AND THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO ABOUT IT.

Get this through your head: They didn't know that the Ewoks were going to die anyway at the time.

The first Death Star was tested on the planet it was built around. It stands to reason that the second would follow suit

Even though a factor in the shoot - the silencing of the sentient prisoners, is not around in this 2nd case?

[IRG CommandoJoe]

In the novelization, the Emperor gave the orders to destroy Endor if the shield went down only on P.148, when the battle already started. The "they planned to destroy Endor anyway" thing AFAIK was a new anti-Imperial slam incorporated in the new ITW.

Nevertheless, it's still canon is it not? Or are you saying the novel overrides the ITW? But then again, the ITW isn't contradicting the novels by filling in gaps with more information, is it?

Honestly, it is virtually impossible for them to know the Emperor's plans at the time - in fact, IMO it is quite implausible they'd ever have found that one out for sure even after the Emperor's death.

Ok, I guess I could agree with that.

There you go. That's the duping. If you intended to lie, just because it turned out your lie would become the truth does not mean you did not lie.

But the lie was for the greater good of protecting the galaxy in the long run anyway, even if the Empire wasn't going to destroy Endor. But it was, so nyah.

The Rebels would be lucky if they can save the Ewoks of Bright Tree village. They can watch in eternal guilt as the rest of the planet gets destroyed with more energy than the Sun puts out in at least 20 minutes![/

Wrong, they inadvertently saved the Ewoks of one village (and maybe not all of them at that). As far as the available knowledge to them, however, they've ensured the Death of Endor and sent a bunch of unwitting Ewoks to die. If the Emperor wasn't going to destroy them before, now they are going to be destroyed.

Let's see...watch a planet become ecologically devastated with nearly all of its population wiped out and the remainder evacuated, in contrast to watching said planet get blown into countless pieces with no chance of any type of evacuation, along with numerous other planets suffering the same fate. Which sounds better?

[vakundok]

How does this match to the very dispersed line (viewed from the DS) formation seen in the movie?

All they had to do was protect a tiny area on the surface of the moon.

Yes. But.
1. Why they decided to use such a complicated way (shielding aginst the debris and radiation), when evacuation could have been started at the moment when the shield went?
2. If you have to protect a tiny area from a single direction, how would you place your ships? In a very dispersed line in which each ships have to defend themselves and the attack vector is kilometers away or in an umbrella formation in which the ships have to concentrate on a tiny surface directly behind them?

Watch the movie when the MF flies toward the rebell fleet. Do you really beleive and suggest that they are positioned to protect a tiny area on the surface?

Read the novelisation, when Wedge and Lando leave the DS. At least in the translated novelisation, it was Endor that provided safety for them, not the rebell fleet.

It would be interesting to see some calculations about the distance between the moon and the rebell fleet (the corvett closest to the camera - and to the DS as well).

[Connor MacLeod]

Oh yeah, and,regarding the "planetary shield network" on Endor:

[quote\"ITW:OT, page 38"]
The Alliance had to strike before the facility was operational - but the Bothans also reported that hte Death Star was protected by a massive defensive shield projected from a generator and dish network located on the surface of the forest moon.
[quote]

[IRG CommandoJoe]

Maybe I just don't like them very much - they caused a Galactic Civil War that killed hundreds of trillions, and I have no doubt we can all agree that their so-called alternative to the Empire stinks in practice.

I'm sick and tired of hearing this bullshit argument. PALPATINE was the cause of the Galactic Civil War, NOT the Rebellion. PALPATINE was the one who started the whole damned thing in the first place. HE was the one who played both factions in the Naboo invasion and the Clone Wars. It was HE who usurped power from the Old Republic and warped it into the Empire. It was HE who threw the galaxy into civil unrest. That son of a bitch was the cause of it all.

[vakundok]

Oh yeah, and,regarding the "planetary shield network" on Endor:

The Alliance had to strike before the facility was operational - but the Bothans also reported that hte Death Star was protected by a massive defensive shield projected from a generator and dish network located on the surface of the forest moon.

Dish network? Does it refer to the smaller dishes on the large dish? But it says 'on the surface'.

[Connor MacLeod]

BTW, does anyone actually have any evidence suggesting the Rebels actually ASKED them for help (either guides to the facility, or for them to fight the Imperials on their side?) I don't see them doing in the novelization or the script/movie.

[Captain Cyran]

BTW, does anyone actually have any evidence suggesting the Rebels actually ASKED them for help (either guides to the facility, or for them to fight the Imperials on their side?) I don't see them doing in the novelization or the script/movie.

The ewoks fought on their own. The rebel forces were definately not expecting their reinforcements.