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darthdavid wrote:WTF do a Liberty Ship and a tug boat have to to with anything?

It's having a baby!!!

phongn wrote:Liberty Ships were mass-produced freighters from WW2.

They had SHIPS in WW2?!

CaptainChewbacca wrote:No, no deathsquad. Its not equivalent to asking "What happened at Gettysburg?" as it is "What was the Hunley?"

CSS Hunley, AKA The Murdering Machine, second submarine used in combat, the first to ever sink a ship, the USS Housatonic, though the Hunley itself was destroyed in the attack. Three prior missions against the Union blockade of Charleston Harbor failed, and two crews were lost prior to the final mission, in which the Hunley was either swamped by it's own torpedo blast or pierced by small arms fire; the cause of the loss of the ship is unknown.

Yes, that was all from memory.

Rouge 9 wrote:CSS Hunley, AKA The Murdering Machine, second submarine used in combat, the first to ever sink a ship, the USS Housatonic, though the Hunley itself was destroyed in the attack. Three prior missions against the Union blockade of Charleston Harbor failed, and two crews were lost prior to the final mission, in which the Hunley was either swamped by it's own torpedo blast or pierced by small arms fire; the cause of the loss of the ship is unknown.

Yes, that was all from google

Correction made.

I see John W. Brown. What, are you exclaiming your support for John Brown and his raid of Harper's Ferry?!? Shep, I didn't know you had it in you...

EDIT: Stupid Me, John W. Brown was the labor leader. But I still hold my statement...

what DID happen at gettysburg?

CaptainChewbacca wrote:No, no deathsquad. Its not equivalent to asking "What happened at Gettysburg?" as it is "What was the Hunley?"

Spoilsport.

Even though I am well aware of what Liberty ships were I couldn't ID one on sight, I must confess.

But then, I live in the desert. My boating knowledge consists of merit badges from the scouts many many years ago.

Zac Naloen wrote:what DID happen at gettysburg?

General Pickett led a glorious and successful charge that allowed General Lee to eventually cut off Washington D.C. and force a concession from Abe Lincoln, effectively winning the war for the Confederacy.

Poor Rogue is in denial still.

Zac Naloen wrote:what DID happen at gettysburg?

There was a battle and lots of people died and stuff, and then 130 years later they made a movie about it starring Tom Berenger and Martin Sheen.

Zac Naloen wrote:what DID happen at gettysburg?

It was the Confederacy's second attempted invasion of the north, the idea being to cut off or capture Washington and force the United States and Europe to recognize the CSA. Lee managed to get into southern Pennsylvania while the Army of the Potomac (Union army operating along the front in northern Virginia, the main theater of operations in the war) chased them. They eventually ran into each other at a hamlet called Gettysburg, maybe 50 miles south of Harrisburg, the state capital.

They fought a three day battle. The first day was skirmishing between advance elements of both armies while the main forces got into place. They wound up on opposing ridgelines, with the Union on the eastern ridge, Cemetary Ridge, blocking the way to Washington. The second day of the battle, Lee tried to force his way onto Cemetary Ridge at a weak point on the Union left, a hill called Little Round Top. If his second in command, Longstreet, had captured it, the Confederacy would have been in position to shell the Union line from the front and the flank, which would have forced them to retreat. But the Union soldiers on Little Round Top, led by the 20th Maine Regiment, held them off, at one point with a bayonet charge. The Union held the ridge.

The next day, Lee was getting desparate, and he made the biggest mistake of his career. Instead of trying to go around the Union's right flank, opened up a long artillery barrage at the Union center, followed by an infantry charge over the exposed ground between the ridges and up Cemetary Ridge into the teeth of the Union's defenses. Unfortunately for them, the artillery barrage had been largely ineffective, and they were torn to pieces the whole way. They made it to the top of the ridge but no further.

The result of the charge, called Pickett's charge after the Confederate divisional commander who suffered the worst losses, was to break the back of the Confederate army. A rainstorm allowed Lee to retreat the next day, and he made it back to Virginia (General Meade, the Union commander, was relieved from duty for letting Lee escape). Lee would never go on the offensive again, though what's sometimes overlooked is that he conducted a brilliant defensive campaign in 1844 against what should have been overwhelming Union numbers. At the same time the battle of Gettysburg was going on, the Union captured Vicksburg, Mississippi, the last point on the Mississippi the Confederacy held, cutting the CSA in half. It was effectively the beginning of the end of the Confederacy. So long as Northern public opinion remained in favor of continuing the war, the Confederacy couldn't win.

DocHorror wrote:Okay...nice photo. But whats a Liberty Ship?

The backbone of the Allied war effort on WWII: Their holds carried the bulk of the war materiel that was shipped from North America to Western Europe and the Soviet Union. They were equally essential to the war effort in the Pacific...

Phong already mentioned that they were mass-produced freighters, but I think they deserve a more detailed description: The Liberty ships were designed from the ground up for mass production, and they were built completely of standardized components: Parts of each ship were pre-fabricated in factories in various parts of the US, then shipped by rail and assembled at the shipyard. The entire fabrication process for each ship took 10 weeks or less, and since there were dozens of them under construction at any given time, an average of about 30 were completed every week...

Their name derives from the fact that the lead ship was named for Patrick Henry, the founding father who is credited with the quote "Give me liberty, or give me death!". Liberty ships cost about $2,000,000 each, and any civil group in the US that was able to raise that much in war bonds was allowed to suggest a name for a Liberty ship. They were usually named after servicemen who had accomplished a meritorious deed and/or died in action, or after public figures in the US (both living and dead)...

Liberty ships were built from September 1941 until February 1944, during which time 2,751 units were produced. At this point, they were replaced in production by Victory ships (many of which had the word "Victory" in their name). Like their predecessors, they were designed for mass production and built in a similar fashion, but they were larger and could carry more cargo. More importantly, they were faster than their predecessors, which was intended to make them less vulnerable to submarines. 534 Victory ships were built before the end of the war...

jmac wrote:

Rogue 9 wrote:CSS Hunley, AKA The Murdering Machine, second submarine used in combat, the first to ever sink a ship, the USS Housatonic, though the Hunley itself was destroyed in the attack. Three prior missions against the Union blockade of Charleston Harbor failed, and two crews were lost prior to the final mission, in which the Hunley was either swamped by it's own torpedo blast or pierced by small arms fire; the cause of the loss of the ship is unknown.

Yes, that was all from google

Correction made.

Erm... No. Try Googling it, you won't find that wording anywhere. [Luke] It's your choice, but I warn you not to underestimate my power. [/Luke]

Edit: Oh, and corrected for correctness.

I've had the pleasure of touring the Brown. It is in great condition and the people who keep it running are fascinating to talk to. I unfortunately could not take the cruise where a mock attack with WW2 fighters is made, but my parents were able to go and had a good time.

CaptainChewbacca wrote:No, no deathsquad. Its not equivalent to asking "What happened at Gettysburg?" as it is "What was the Hunley?"

Well, the Liberty Ship is closer in history than the Hunley, and the former played a crucial role in WWII. Both were blockade breakers in a manner of speaking. But the Hunley is more of an arcane piece of knowledge. The Liberty, while certainly extraordinarily crucial to the war effort, was more in the background, one of those things you don't notice in your textbooks but the war couldn't have been won without. The History Channel did a nice segment on it though.. and their serious flaws.