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Quiet over there, Finlander. Your country held off the Nazis pretty well back in the day, so around here (where World War 2 determines everything) you're okay. But don't rip the US Navy.

On a side note, I'll betcha the CVNX has laser cannons for anti-missile defense when it finally rolls out. Hell, if they're planning on putting a 100kw laser on a FIGHTER then I don't see why they wouldn't put a few big honkers on a carrier...

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Quiet over there, Finlander. Your country held off the Nazis pretty well back in the day, so around here (where World War 2 determines everything) you're okay. But don't rip the US Navy.

You have your history backwords. Finland was an ally of Nazi Germany from 1941-44, when the Soviets finnaly finished what they started in 1940 and utterly crushed them.

You might be thinking about the Winter War in which Finland fought the Soviet Union in 1940, infliciting heavy losses but was eventally force to give up and hand over a rather large chunk of land to the Union.

In regards to the effects of burning fiberglass. I've had some small experience working in the stuff. The resins used to make a laminate are highly toxic even in their inert states. Once mixed with the catalyst, they produce vapors that are nasty, nasty, nasty. I once accidentally got a drop of so-called "safety-hardener" on my wrist and broke out in hives from my wrist to shouder, and after that I was very sensitive to the stuff.
One time in the sanding room, at a downdraft table, this brain donor was SMOKING! The fucking idiot kept ashing his cigarette through the table, equiped with fans to draw dust through it, and filters to catch the dust. Now, admittedly, dust catches fire much easier than a solid material, but this asshole caught about five pounds of hazardous materials on fire because he was too lazy to go outside to smoke. You can't imagine the smell. I can't imagine the damage done to my lungs.

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Mike_6002 wrote:Oh dear......<ROFL at the sad state of Europe's navies> would have been funnier it was a French ship

The French don&#8217;t have fires, they lose battleships on rocks off major port's whose waters they've had time to chart for hundreds of years.

Well it's not like the US is blameless in this department-

Unfortunately, the La Moure County was participating in an annual maritime exercise called UNITAS when it grounded on rocks on 12 September 2000, suffering irreparable damage. The ship was maneuvering in a pre-dawn fog, preparing to off-load some of the 240 troops aboard, when the accident happened. The ship's hull scraped along a rocky bottom, opening up three forward compartments where fuel and Marines are housed. One hole measured 45 feet long. The Atlantic Fleet commander recommended that the ship be decommissioned, rather than repaired or towed back to the Little Creek Naval Amphibious Base.

Accidents happen.

Vympel wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:

Mike_6002 wrote:Oh dear......<ROFL at the sad state of Europe's navies> would have been funnier it was a French ship

The French don&#8217;t have fires, they lose battleships on rocks off major port's whose waters they've had time to chart for hundreds of years.

Well it's not like the US is blameless in this department-

Unfortunately, the La Moure County was participating in an annual maritime exercise called UNITAS when it grounded on rocks on 12 September 2000, suffering irreparable damage. The ship was maneuvering in a pre-dawn fog, preparing to off-load some of the 240 troops aboard, when the accident happened. The ship's hull scraped along a rocky bottom, opening up three forward compartments where fuel and Marines are housed. One hole measured 45 feet long. The Atlantic Fleet commander recommended that the ship be decommissioned, rather than repaired or towed back to the Little Creek Naval Amphibious Base.

Accidents happen.

Yes no navy escape it. There have been a whole lot of ships wrecked or damaged by groundings this century, not many in the last two decades though. The USN has had at least six major warships lost in that way that I can recall of the top of my head and I'm sure there are several more.

One that comes to mind is the Milwaukee. The Milwaukee was drive aground in while attempting to tow a sub that had run aground on the breach in California. The tugs holding her in position where not strong enough and she got drive board side on to the waves, which rapidly pushed her ashore. If a major storm hadn't been approaching and kicking up a much higher surf she would have been fine, but no one seems to have noticed that. Several lines snapped and one of them just got dragged along and that was that.

There was also the Memphis off I believe Santo Domingo. She got caught unprepared in a Hurricane in open water near shore, broadside on to the waves in shallow water. The storm approached so rapidly that before steam pressure could be brought up waves where pouring in down her funnels and in-between waves her keel was hitting the bottom! While the ship its self was a total loss most of the equipment, all guns and allot of other stuff could be taken off and reused.

Both these ships where later scrapped after being mostly broken up by the waves.

A British D class cruiser got wrecked in Norway in 1940, IIRC the IJN had a battleship ground of China some time in the 30's. Another French battleship ran aground off Malta in WW1. It was okay but they had to remove much of the belt and turret armor to float her off. I can think of but not place names to a couple other cruisers as well.

Then there's all the accidental ramming.. In that respect the USN has done very well. However one South African naval tanker evidently sank four different ships, and then there's the escort hungry Australian carrier.

and then there's the escort hungry Australian carrier.

Oh yeah I'm well aware of our navy's little bungle in that department ... as I recall, we sold it to China. And they still haven't broken it up ... curious.

Vympel wrote:

and then there's the escort hungry Australian carrier.

Oh yeah I'm well aware of our navy's little bungle in that department ... as I recall, we sold it to China. And they still haven't broken it up ... curious.

Yes, the Insidious PLAN will soon have the secrets of mid 1940's British war emergency budget carriers built to civilian specifications.

Sea Skimmer wrote: Yes, the Insidious PLAN will soon have the secrets of mid 1940's British war emergency budget carriers built to civilian specifications.

Hey, never said that the insidious PLAN was smart

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Quiet over there, Finlander. Your country held off the Nazis pretty well back in the day, so around here (where World War 2 determines everything) you're okay. But don't rip the US Navy.

As SeaSkimmer said it, we were allies of the German for most of the war. Still, thanks for the comment!

Sea Skimmer wrote:

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Quiet over there, Finlander. Your country held off the Nazis pretty well back in the day, so around here (where World War 2 determines everything) you're okay. But don't rip the US Navy.

You have your history backwords. Finland was an ally of Nazi Germany from 1941-44, when the Soviets finnaly finished what they started in 1940 and utterly crushed them.

You might be thinking about the Winter War in which Finland fought the Soviet Union in 1940, infliciting heavy losses but was eventally force to give up and hand over a rather large chunk of land to the Union.

Sorry, I’m a bit too patriotic person to entirely ignore the comment “utterly crushed them”. The sentence is also a bit misleading, because it implies that the Soviets dominated the war for four years, which is not the truth. In the beginning of the second Soviet conflict, called the Continuation War, Finns were on the offensive reclaiming all the pre-war borders before they ceased it in the winter 1940. Despite the furious requests by the Germans, Finns never participated the siege of Leningrad, thus allowing the Soviets to at least partially supply their troops. The course of the war would’ve been slightly different had our chief of staff decided to commit our troops there. For the next three years, nothing major happened from either sides - just aerial combat and commando raids behind Soviet lines.

Then came the summer 1944 when the Soviets decided to get rid of the Finnish front. Thus began what was among the biggest battles of the Second World War with four Soviet armies consisting of several Guards divisions attacked. With the help of the Luftwaffe and AT weapons bought from the Germany, Finland managed to halt the Soviet offensive. The USSR had failed to achieve its objective, but Finnish side was badly depleted and wouldn’t have been able to continue fighting much longer. We lost the war, but at least we never became communist controlled country, although that was pretty close to happening in some occasions.

After the Continuation War was over, USSR forced Finns to drive off the German troops from the Finnish Lapland. This started a year long conflict was called the Lapland War, during which most cities/towns in Lapland were entirely destroyed by the Germans. Whew, I’m done speaking.




Finnish Air Force Brewster Buffalo – Americans, thank you

"During its combat career in Finland the Buffalo is credited with 496 enemy aircraft destroyed [Soviet & German] against the loss of nineteen Buffalos, for a victory ratio of 26:1." - Source: _F2A Buffalo in Action_Squadron/Signal Publications, Inc. 1987


Sorry for derailing the thread...