Page 2 of 2
Posted: 2002-11-21 08:23pm
by Patrick Degan
Mike_6002 wrote:Stormbringer wrote:data_link wrote:[quote="Stormbringer"
I suppose it's as they say: Rich man's war, Poor man's fight.
A saying that came from the 1863 New York Draft Riots, good choice
The saying was also quoted by Pvt. Sam Watkins of the Confederate Army of Tennessee in his memoir
Co. Aiytch —in reaction to the Confederate draft law proviso which exempted any man who owned twenty slaves from military service. That exemption was about as popular with Confederate soldiers as the Substitution Exemption was with Union troops.
"Rich man's war/Poor man's fight" is a universal observation in most cases.
Posted: 2002-11-21 08:23pm
by Mr Bean
When his medical was due, and they didn't have him, he lost his pilot status.
For EVERYONE ELSE who went AWOL or deserted like that would've been drafted immediately into the real army and plonked on the front lines in Vietnam, Shrun just had enough influence to get around that.
You simply requoted the Articule Ted, I have not been able to find any backup or mention of this thing anywhere where did you pull it from?
Posted: 2002-11-21 08:24pm
by Ted
Mr Bean wrote:When his medical was due, and they didn't have him, he lost his pilot status.
For EVERYONE ELSE who went AWOL or deserted like that would've been drafted immediately into the real army and plonked on the front lines in Vietnam, Shrun just had enough influence to get around that.
You simply requoted the Articule Ted, I have not been able to find any backup or mention of this thing anywhere where did you pull it from?
The Toronto Star.
www.thestar.com
Posted: 2002-11-21 08:34pm
by Mr Bean
Thats the main page gee nice, how about to the Story itself?
Posted: 2002-11-21 08:43pm
by phongn
Mr Bean wrote:Thats the main page gee nice, how about to the Story itself?
Indeed, a cite to the
Boston Globe's article would also be nice.
Posted: 2002-11-21 08:44pm
by Ted
phongn wrote:Mr Bean wrote:Thats the main page gee nice, how about to the Story itself?
Indeed, a cite to the
Boston Globe's article would also be nice.
I dont even know the Boston Globe's website.
EDIT:
http://thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSer ... =News/News
TorStar article
Posted: 2002-11-21 08:45pm
by The Dark
Mr Bean wrote:Thats the main page gee nice, how about to the Story itself?
Look up Vietnam in search, it should be the third article down. The story was originally broken by Walter Robinson of the Boston Globe, according to LTC Bill Burkett, quoted here:
http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/2002/ ... ubbed.html.
The original story is here:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/cam ... uty+.shtml. (Bean, if you could shorten this one up, I still haven't figured out all the controls)
Both Alabaman superior officers are deceased, but the general in charge of the base has said Bush never appeared for duty at the Alabama base. In fact, it appears he was working on a Senatorial campaign. The Texas officers were LTC William Harris Jr and LTC Jerry Killian.
Posted: 2002-11-21 08:51pm
by Mr Bean
Better however both of the links you provided The Dark are broken
Re: Dubya AWOL for a year
Posted: 2002-11-21 10:29pm
by The Duchess of Zeon
Ted wrote:The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
And this article is a lie. There's a very simple explaination for why his transfer to the Alabama Guard didn't go through - But of course once it was approved he was no longer required to serve in the Texas Guard. He'd been transferred. Something then came up along the way, and that was that.
It's part of the military bureaucratic process - And, you know, we do need a national guard. There's nothing wrong with joining it, even in wartime (It could get activated, after all).
I'll make inquiries and get back to you.
Bush got a transfer to the Alabama Guard unit.
Only he didn't turn up there for a YEAR.
Well, if he was told not to turn up there, that would be an obvious reason not to, right?
When his medical was due, and they didn't have him, he lost his pilot status.
For EVERYONE ELSE who went AWOL or deserted like that would've been drafted immediately into the real army and plonked on the front lines in Vietnam, Shrun just had enough influence oto get around that.
Funny thing is that Clinton wasn't prosecuted for draft-dodging. So I'd hesitate before I used the words "everyone else".
And Bean, this article is from the Toront Star, and the reports from the CO's were from the Boston Globe, as it says in the article.
And that matters? There aren't any names of commanding officers, the sources are stunningly thin - This is just reprinted trash talk.
Here are some comments on it:
I'm going from memory, but the President flew F-106s and was indeed absent from some drills at some point. From personal experience, I can tell you that missing a drill is not uncommon. Life happens and there are procedures to make up that sort of thing. Heck, I missed part of drill a few months ago. Our training scedule had been changed and a regular Saturday/Sunday drill had been changed to include Friday night but I didn't get the word. I haven't seen anything to suggest that President Bush's absence(s) were not equally innocent.
And:
Nothing more than another liberal hit piece. Dubya was indeed a fighter pilot, he flew F-102's for the Texas Air Guard. And he couldn't possible have been an "army deserter" since he was never in the Army. His military records were thoroughly vetted in the 2000 campaign, they show him to have satisfactorily completed his tour of duty.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
". . .there were only 49 media stories about Bush's military past during his presidential campaign. . ."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats because there WAS NO STORY!! If there had been, does anyone doubt the media would have crucified him with it?
And:
I think that articles like this only seem to indicate that George Bush is possibly the most intelligent man to have ever lived. I just have a few problems with it:
1) Of course he knew that the ANG was safe and easy compared to the Vietnam War. He knew that the US and USSR would never go to war, there would never be a global nuclear exchange, the USSR would fall without a shot towards the west.
2) He must have also known that the US was going to lose the Vietnam War.
3) He also knew that there was no risk or danger of him dying in an aviation accident. The sons of rich guys only flew safe, easy, never blew up for any reason airplanes that included "get out of deadly situations" buttons.
4) I'd love to know what percentage of the US Armed Forces actually went to Vietnam in that time period. I mean, if there was planning by connected people to keep George out of danger, why not get him into the Coast Guard? Or as a nice, safe junior officer in the US Army, making sure that West Germany's beer stocks were kept at a consistent level?
I love writers like this who assume that the people in the past must have known everything we know today....
And this comment by a deliciously cynical ex-Marine:
The article uses Paul Begala as a source, heh heh. Yeah, Paul would know.
All from here of course:
http://pub82.ezboard.com/fhistorypoliti ... ic&index=2
I confess to being biased. But then, you are, too, and so is the article - Not to mention highly inaccurate.
Posted: 2002-11-21 10:32pm
by Mr Bean
Now cleaning Zeon's Post, hope you don't mind
*Edit woops Zeon is two steps ahead of me, no sooner do I go to edit than its fixed
Posted: 2002-11-21 10:33pm
by The Duchess of Zeon
Mr Bean wrote:Now cleaning Zeon's Post, hope you don't mind
Actually, I do, because I just did it myself. Stop being so efficient. You need to operate like a customs official in Angola.
Posted: 2002-11-21 10:35pm
by Mr Bean
You need to operate like a customs official in Angola
! For that no mint on your pillow tonight
Re: Dubya AWOL for a year
Posted: 2002-11-21 10:40pm
by Ted
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:Ted wrote:The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
And this article is a lie. There's a very simple explaination for why his transfer to the Alabama Guard didn't go through - But of course once it was approved he was no longer required to serve in the Texas Guard. He'd been transferred. Something then came up along the way, and that was that.
It's part of the military bureaucratic process - And, you know, we do need a national guard. There's nothing wrong with joining it, even in wartime (It could get activated, after all).
I'll make inquiries and get back to you.
Bush got a transfer to the Alabama Guard unit.
Only he didn't turn up there for a YEAR.
Well, if he was told not to turn up there, that would be an obvious reason not to, right?
When you request a transfer to another unit, you would normally go there and report for duty. This is not what Bush did. He requested a transfer, was given one, and never reported for duty.
And all military deserters were drafted into the army, no matter what arm they were in, National Guard, Air National Guard, etc...
Posted: 2002-11-21 10:44pm
by The Dark
Mr Bean wrote:Better however both of the links you provided The Dark are broken
*&%*#$!!! OK, since I can't get the links to work, I'll tell how I found the sites. I went to Google and looked up
Bush "National Guard". On my search, they were #1 and #3 on the list (#2 just looked too biased).
Posted: 2002-11-21 10:46pm
by Mr Bean
And all military deserters were drafted into the army, no matter what arm they were in, National Guard, Air National Guard, etc...
Mind backing that up as I'd love to know the Rational for training a man for four years in Sub Nuke Reactors then sending him tooooo the Navy if he showed up a week late(Course normaly you assume he's defecting if he coughs the Wrong way and is a Nuke)