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Hey, even the mighty Lord of Kobal, Stravo has weeks, sometimes months, between updates. From writing fics, myself, I've learned that updating every week drains you of ideas and really makes the fic putter out and die easily.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:Hey, even the mighty Lord of Kobal, Stravo has weeks, sometimes months, between updates. From writing fics, myself, I've learned that updating every week drains you of ideas and really makes the fic putter out and die easily.

Well, I already have the basic premise, storyline and even ending mapped out(roughly). It's writing it out that's time consuming, and I don't want it to be too shitty.

A few bits.

1. Cut the technobabble. It kills a story faster then bad dialogue.

Explaining does little good, because it's then making it a centerpiece. Especially if you're using it as a deus ex machina against ISDs. Instead up the power of the Federation or lower the power of the Empire or a happy medium of both. Chuck, Mike, Frank and a whole host of other do this because technobabble, reads very poorly. No one cares how something works except as a technical standpoint. When one reads a story, one goes "Superman Flies" not "Superman as he utlizies his trans telekinetic abilities...". This is why Star Trek is so lambasted for it. If the two sides are on somewhat equal footing, there is no NEED to go "Uber temporal transphasic alter warp subspacic shielding". One just goes "Shields up!" and end of story.

2. You don't need to tell the people what a Klingon likes, or what not. The reader finds out through actions not a one shot description of the inner monologue. It didn't work with Herbert, and it really works with no one. It's in essence describing "And there Darth Vader stood before Obi Wan, clenching the Lightsaber in his hands. The destruction of the Jedi was his greatest joy."

Those would be my two real criticism. A story should rely on the characters and the underline plot. If it's a story about the Federation on equal footing with the Empire, fine. No problem, but coming up with a technobabble reason, turns people off very quickly and draws criticism very fast because it makes the feeling that you're using all this as a Deus Ex Machina.

Ghost Rider wrote:A few bits.

1. Cut the technobabble. It kills a story faster then bad dialogue.

The only technobabble I included (so far as I can tell) was a minor descriptive title of the weapons and shields the Enterprise was using. This was an attempt on my part to explain how the hell the Enterprise did what it did. Guess that backfired.

Explaining does little good, because it's then making it a centerpiece. Especially if you're using it as a deus ex machina against ISDs. Instead up the power of the Federation or lower the power of the Empire or a happy medium of both. Chuck, Mike, Frank and a whole host of other do this because technobabble, reads very poorly. No one cares how something works except as a technical standpoint. When one reads a story, one goes "Superman Flies" not "Superman as he utlizies his trans telekinetic abilities...". This is why Star Trek is so lambasted for it. If the two sides are on somewhat equal footing, there is no NEED to go "Uber temporal transphasic alter warp subspacic shielding". One just goes "Shields up!" and end of story.

My entire goal was that the Empire is still vastly superior to the Federation, however, this specific Federation is pulling out all the stops and only putting up a challenge by virtue of several pieces of technology the Empire has no experience with, and this Federation chose to use them to the fullest extent.

2. You don't need to tell the people what a Klingon likes, or what not. The reader finds out through actions not a one shot description of the inner monologue. It didn't work with Herbert, and it really works with no one. It's in essence describing "And there Darth Vader stood before Obi Wan, clenching the Lightsaber in his hands. The destruction of the Jedi was his greatest joy."

Good point. I suppose I was being overly descriptive in that sense. I'll keep tabs on that aspect and attempt to correct it.

Those would be my two real criticism. A story should rely on the characters and the underline plot. If it's a story about the Federation on equal footing with the Empire, fine. No problem, but coming up with a technobabble reason, turns people off very quickly and draws criticism very fast because it makes the feeling that you're using all this as a Deus Ex Machina.

Hmm...perhaps this particular fanfic is doomed to failure then. The majority of the premise is based upon the idea this is a Federation with quite a different mindset, and several key technologies allows them to be a splinter in the Imperial's side.

Robert a hint you can remove (in way that works) the tech gap by two way
1. ignore it (as funny as it seem this may work from story POV (as long this means ST and SW are equal not that ST owns everythimg))
2.Work around with out technobabble (I'm doing tthis by having Picard command a republic ship (also called the Enterprise (the E-E only present in very beginning of the Fic)).

Technobabble will seem a cheap trick, especially if the SW side is a lot powerfull (apart of the Technobabble solution).

Lord Revan wrote:Robert a hint you can remove (in way that works) the tech gap by two way
1. ignore it (as funny as it seem this may work from story POV (as long this means ST and SW are equal not that ST owns everythimg))
2.Work around with out technobabble (I'm doing tthis by having Picard command a republic ship (also called the Enterprise (the E-E only present in very beginning of the Fic)).

Technobabble will seem a cheap trick, especially if the SW side is a lot powerfull (apart of the Technobabble solution).

It would seem then my fanfic idea won't work, as the premise is basically a technological copout as people here have put it.

Meh, oh well. The Empire certainly wasn't going to lose, only be quite annoyed by this alternate quantum reality Federation that was essentially a ruthlessly pragmatistic organization.

Robert Walper wrote:It would seem then my fanfic idea won't work, as the premise is basically a technological copout as people here have put it.

Meh, oh well. The Empire certainly wasn't going to lose, only be quite annoyed by this alternate quantum reality Federation that was essentially a ruthlessly pragmatistic organization.

the main problem of premise is that it's unintresting. Also this all ready you don't have explain things so much (we either all ready know or will find find by their action what klingon is (for example)).

Lord Revan wrote:

Robert Walper wrote:It would seem then my fanfic idea won't work, as the premise is basically a technological copout as people here have put it.

Meh, oh well. The Empire certainly wasn't going to lose, only be quite annoyed by this alternate quantum reality Federation that was essentially a ruthlessly pragmatistic organization.

the main problem of premise is that it's unintresting. Also this all ready you don't have explain things so much (we either all ready know or will find find by their action what klingon is (for example)).

Alas, as I said, a doomed possible fanfic. Meh, never claimed to be a good writer.

Sorry, the only thing I could think of while reading this was "And now, Star Trek waves its magic wand..."

Kuja wrote:Sorry, the only thing I could think of while reading this was "And now, Star Trek waves its magic wand..."

Yes, yes, I get it, it's not a good fanfic. *sigh*

Ghost Rider wrote:1. Cut the technobabble. It kills a story faster then bad dialogue.

I didn't really notice any offensive amount of technobabble to describe the phase cloak. Actually, aside from one line about "raise phasic and temporal shielding" I can't remember any technobabble, just a straightforward description of how they use the phase cloak to destroy the Imperial vessel.
Basically Walper's premise is the Federation is still much weaker than the Empire, but they have a couple of tricks up their sleeve. What's wrong with that? Just as long as he doesn't turn the whole story into a phase cloak wanking session I don't see the problem.

Lord Revan wrote:Technobabble will seem a cheap trick, especially if the SW side is a lot powerfull (apart of the Technobabble solution).

Personally I don't see the problem. When you're fighting against a massively superior foe you use every dirty trick in the book (of which phase cloak is a good example).
Walper, this would be my advice.
Don't make the phase cloak the centerpiece of the story. Have the Federation use clever tactics to outwit the Empire, as well as technological tricks like phase cloak, instead of just going "teh Fedzors pwn teh Mp1re w/ phz cl0ks", because I think the reason people are coming down on you is they have the expectation that your fanfic will boil down to exactly that. Maybe show resistance movements on occupied planets, sort of like the French Resistance in WWII. Having the Empire at some point develop a countermeasure to phase cloaks might be a good idea.

Robert Walper wrote:

Kuja wrote:Sorry, the only thing I could think of while reading this was "And now, Star Trek waves its magic wand..."

Yes, yes, I get it, it's not a good fanfic. *sigh*

Don't give up so easily. You only wrote one scene, it's too early to make that pronouncement.

Rob, fuck that. Keep it up! I'm a horrible writer and it doesn't stop me.

edit: that didn't come out right... err, just write the damn thing.

I'm in agreement with Junghali and Crackpot:

My writing sucks, see Glory of the Empire or my previous aborted YGO/Batman fic. Yet I'm still working on the newer one.

Your story is to early to call a success or failure, I want to see more of it personally. So write

[Unicron]
-activates subspace pain link-
Write it Walper, now, or you yourself, will be obliterated
-shuts off painlink-
[/Unicron]

Robert Walper wrote:

Kuja wrote:Sorry, the only thing I could think of while reading this was "And now, Star Trek waves its magic wand..."

Yes, yes, I get it, it's not a good fanfic. *sigh*

You did have a couple good ideas, but they were crushed by the problems with your chapter. The biggest one is that the centerpiece of your chapter is the Enterprise pulling two of the most-hated treknobabble weapons (temporal shields and transtorps) and swatting a ISD with less effort than a human swatting a mosquito. This does not make for interesting story. I don't want to read a chapter like this; neither would I want to read a similar chapter about an ISD blowing away a Sovereign with one shot.

When you do things like this, you effectively remove all the tension from a confrontation. There's nothing interesting, and lack of conflict will kill a story faster than any amount of technobabble.

Your characters are another problem. They're not human; they're sterotypes. I don't see Worf at the tactical station, I see a generic "I love fighting" Klingon. Nothing interesting. Your flashes of Earth's destruction are a good idea, but they're over so quickly and so generic that they don't carry any weight. By the time we reach the most interesting part of the chapter - the strange logo on the bridge door - so much tension has been sucked out of the atmosphere that it no longer makes a difference; the reader just doesn't care.

Kuja wrote:

Robert Walper wrote:

Kuja wrote:Sorry, the only thing I could think of while reading this was "And now, Star Trek waves its magic wand..."

Yes, yes, I get it, it's not a good fanfic. *sigh*

You did have a couple good ideas, but they were crushed by the problems with your chapter. The biggest one is that the centerpiece of your chapter is the Enterprise pulling two of the most-hated treknobabble weapons (temporal shields and transtorps) and swatting a ISD with less effort than a human swatting a mosquito. This does not make for interesting story. I don't want to read a chapter like this; neither would I want to read a similar chapter about an ISD blowing away a Sovereign with one shot.

When you do things like this, you effectively remove all the tension from a confrontation. There's nothing interesting, and lack of conflict will kill a story faster than any amount of technobabble.

Your characters are another problem. They're not human; they're sterotypes. I don't see Worf at the tactical station, I see a generic "I love fighting" Klingon. Nothing interesting. Your flashes of Earth's destruction are a good idea, but they're over so quickly and so generic that they don't carry any weight. By the time we reach the most interesting part of the chapter - the strange logo on the bridge door - so much tension has been sucked out of the atmosphere that it no longer makes a difference; the reader just doesn't care.

Obviously my writing style and abilities need work. Perhaps I'll consult one of the more prominent writers of the board for tips and ideas on how to go about telling this particular fanfic. Perhaps it can be salvaged, but for the time being I'll concede to the fact I'm not doing a good job on it.

Actually Walper...if you want to write better. Just read more stuff. Learn and see what different styles there are. Chuck's, Kuja's, and Stravo are great, but they got it from a rather large dearth of reading, and for some bits TV, movie inspiration. You can see it in how they differently describe situations, characters and thoughts.

Simply consulting will not exactly produce your style but produce a pseudo another style. Read more, and then find what you feel comfortable with. Simply just slapping ink onto paper is not writing, it tapping on the keyboard.

Which is the problem that a few others have, and why technobabble is such a killer. Anyone can go "And the Space Marine craft was destroyed by a ________!!"

Ghost Rider wrote:Actually Walper...if you want to write better. Just read more stuff. Learn and see what different styles there are. Chuck's, Kuja's, and Stravo are great, but they got it from a rather large dearth of reading, and for some bits TV, movie inspiration. You can see it in how they differently describe situations, characters and thoughts.

Simply consulting will not exactly produce your style but produce a pseudo another style. Read more, and then find what you feel comfortable with. Simply just slapping ink onto paper is not writing, it tapping on the keyboard.

Which is the problem that a few others have, and why technobabble is such a killer. Anyone can go "And the Space Marine craft was destroyed by a ________!!"

*nods* I agree. I think part of my problem was the intention of just spilling out a story too quickly and not enough forethought and effort into writing it. The motivation is idle time and distraction, which I suppose isn't the best thing. Better to tell a story because there is one rather than just thinking you can make one.

Robert Walper wrote:*nods* I agree. I think part of my problem was the intention of just spilling out a story too quickly and not enough forethought and effort into writing it. The motivation is idle time and distraction, which I suppose isn't the best thing. Better to tell a story because there is one rather than just thinking you can make one.

it better to have story and then write down then to try to make it as go. You do potential , but you need to think more of what is point of story (aka what do you want tell).

this is how I work on fic

I visualize the story in my mind and perhaps draw few pictures that relate to events of the story (I'm visual thinker), I have normally most major plot points figured out in some form before write a single word of actual fic.

Kuja wrote:You did have a couple good ideas, but they were crushed by the problems with your chapter. The biggest one is that the centerpiece of your chapter is the Enterprise pulling two of the most-hated treknobabble weapons (temporal shields and transtorps) and swatting a ISD with less effort than a human swatting a mosquito. This does not make for interesting story. I don't want to read a chapter like this; neither would I want to read a similar chapter about an ISD blowing away a Sovereign with one shot.
When you do things like this, you effectively remove all the tension from a confrontation.

I disagree. Walper had an OK prelude. Now if the whole story read like that I'd agree with you. But what I see right there is an overmatched enemy using creative measures to defeat a massively superior enemy. Sort of like Washington did with the British, or the Viet Kong did in Vietnam. Frankly I think you're being a little prejudiced because he is Walper, and you're expecting his story to be one giant phase-cloak wanking session. As for the phase cloak being a hated piece of Treknobabble, bloody hell if you're being invaded and you have a potentially useful weapon in your hands you use it. That's realistic.
And I think that part about how the Empire is "catching on" provides a bit of tension if you think about. How long do you think the Feds have before the Empire finds a countermeasure to phase cloaks?
There's nothing interesting, and lack of conflict will kill a story faster than any amount of technobabble.

Your characters are another problem. They're not human; they're sterotypes. I don't see Worf at the tactical station, I see a generic "I love fighting" Klingon. Nothing interesting.

True, but remember this is only the first scene. Only horrendously bad writers try to say everything about a character when they introduce them. Characters are to be developed as the story moves along.

For the record, I'm shelving the project for the time being. Time constraints, plus I intent to rewrite the first segment and more thoroughly think out the story first.

PS: If anyone it interested in helping me think it out or give tips, lemme know.

Robert Walper wrote:For the record, I'm shelving the project for the time being. Time constraints, plus I intent to rewrite the first segment and more thoroughly think out the story first.

PS: If anyone it interested in helping me think it out or give tips, lemme know.

I can help if want to but it has to bee your fic in the end.

Where is the second chapter?