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That is pretty sad Kon_el. Using a cheesy cheap tactic to insult a person on another forum. If you wanted a second opinion, then just open it up on the Other SciFi section instead of doing something like this.

His Divine Shadow wrote:Warned from WHAT?
This is not a hijack, this is ontopic, this bastard is speaking about this very same topic at SB, and he's saying stuff like I've been claiming stuff I haven't claimed at all, I've got every right to be pissed, and I am pissed and I will continue to be pissed and it's perfectly 100% ontopic.

You just admitted that the claims he's saying that you made have absolutely nothing to do with what's going on this thread. Thus, your attempt to move the discussion back onto the topic that you're debating with him about elsewhere is a high-jacking attempt.

I just flashy, memory-messer uppered this entire thread to make sure that you were NEVER mentioned by name, and indeed confirmed that this is totally different from what is going on on the other site. Now, you are correct that it was dishonest of him to come here without informing you, but the principle reason for creating this thread appears to have been an attempt to gain information. He clearly stated that he is having a debate with another party on another thread, and with that statement it is assumed that the other thread on the other site will be where he presents any information he gets here. You DO have the right to be upset with this guy for not telling you about this (and, presumably, for not accrediting his sources), but I'm not going to allow you to pull this topic of discussion to another field--even if that other field was the original topic of discussion on another thread, to which this one alludes.

Master of Ossus wrote: You just admitted that the claims he's saying that you made have absolutely nothing to do with what's going on this thread. Thus, your attempt to move the discussion back onto the topic that you're debating with him about elsewhere is a high-jacking attempt.

Where, where did I say this?
That thread is the precise reason he made this thread.

(and, presumably, for not accrediting his sources), but I'm not going to allow you to pull this topic of discussion to another field--even if that other field was the original topic of discussion on another thread, to which this one alludes.

As far as I am, nothing of value can come out of this thread, you can't build a tower with a foundation of mud(or bullshit) or somesuch witty sounding phrase.

I am not just upset, but utterly pissed to a degree I didn't think possible, I saw what he thinks of me, and how he made my claims sound.

Hey, who knows, maybe in the future I'll make my own thread like this.

His Divine Shadow wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote: You just admitted that the claims he's saying that you made have absolutely nothing to do with what's going on this thread. Thus, your attempt to move the discussion back onto the topic that you're debating with him about elsewhere is a high-jacking attempt.

Where, where did I say this?
That thread is the precise reason he made this thread.

You said that when you said this:

he's saying stuff like I've been claiming stuff I haven't claimed at all

Okay, now you do have every right to be pissed. This was clearly dishonest, and is a good demonstration of how the strawman fallacy can harm a worthwhile debate. Take this debate onto the other thread, point out the strawmen that he's been using, and win the debate.

His Divine Shadow wrote:Hey, who knows, maybe in the future I'll make my own thread like this.

Do it. Debate over there to your heart's content.

I wouldn't have been nearly has pissed had he linked to the debate and used my names, but this, argh, I am actually having a headache over this, I'm going to bed.

His Divine Shadow wrote:I wouldn't have been nearly has pissed had he linked to the debate and used my names, but this, argh, I am actually having a headache over this, I'm going to bed.

Okay.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Sea Skimmer wrote:Better way of dealing with Jedi is through the miracle of fragmentation. Shoot a grenade into the ground near them or fire your E-11 at the walls. There are plenty of examples in the EU of fragments injuring Jedi, so it seems unlikely that they could simply push them aside.

Jedi have stopped such attacks in the past, but not while effectively engaged in combat with other beings. It appears to require a great deal of concentration, on their part. They seem similarly vulnerable to grenades and thermal detonators, except that these can be manipulated with the Force while they are still being thrown. Good tactic, though, and probably the one I would try if I simply could not avoid combat with a Jedi.

Now that I think about it, the OICW would be ideal for Jedi hunting. Full auto 5.56 to keep em busy dodging, and high velocity air burst fragmentation grenades to kill em.

Agree about that last bit through. Best to wait for them to get on a ship and then blast it.

well, staying on topic.

ROF isn't all that relevant if they're all coming from the same source. It's a matter of tracking the imaginary line/pattern that the incoming stream makes. /the jedi would not be concentrating on the rounds/bolts/bullets individually. However, if you had three souces of fire coming from different enough angles and with a fare bit of accuracy and abilty to track the Jedi could be overwelhmed by even a moderate ROF.

ROF is certainly relevant if enough lead is being laid into an area quickly enough to give the target no place to go. Fro an example I give you the Minigun vs. the Agents in the Matrix, where sheer weight of fire overwhelmed their ability to dodge, and semi-auto pistol fire had proven completely ineffective. It definitely helps to be reacting near the same level of speed as the target though.

rate of fire does matter with a slugthrower because the fullyautomatic action of the gun shakes it and causes random dispersion of fire after the first few shots. there is no imaginary line to follow.

And the jedis precog will not manifest it as you think.
The way you imagine pre-cog, as some tingly feeling or something is wrong, the Jedi does know what is coming at him and where and when.
This is going to show him something he can't deflect, he'll act on it.
If it was that simple it would have been done during the 25.000 years the Jedi have had enemies of all kinds, it hasn't.

Not only that, a jedi can sense murderous intent emanating from the person.

Okay, everyone, listen up. ALL of Kon El's statements that remotely allude to his earlier debate with HDS have been deleted, on the advice of some other moderators. This is a punitive action. Doing ANYTHING like what Kon El did, in the future, will be dealt with in the harshest manner available. I have also deleted a few posts that respond only to what he said while misrepresenting what was going on with HDS, including a few of my own. Further action is also being taken. What Kon El did will NOT be tolerated. His actions were totally dishonest, and clearly violated the spirit of the debate, both here and at SB.com. I apologize for any inconveniences that these measures may have caused, but they are the only method for dealing with such abuse on the part of a board member.

My bad. This is actualy the first real debate I have ever been involved in.

Master of Ossus wrote:

Yogi wrote:If the shots come quickly enough, a Jedi simply would not have enough time to move his saber from one position to another. That, or one can simply fire three beams at once in a triangle. A Jedi will only be able to block two of them at most.

Jedi do have an enhanced ability to move their weapons very quickly, as is stated numerous times in the EU (ref. Darksaber, for sure. It's been used in other books, but I can't remember which ones, at the moment.). Jedi CAN be overwhelmed, and they do tire from sustained combat (ref. The Approaching Storm). A triangular pattern of fire is probably the best solution.

How about a special tri-barreled Jedi-killer blaster?

Or maybe a cone-shaped blaster scatter pattern? I've heard of guns called deck sweepers with ten meter ranges, but capable of annihilating everything within that range.

the triangle attack would only work for a split second. The jedi would detect the approaching shooters and move outta the way. A force jump stab shooter one and turn to fact the 2 shooters who were behind him. It happened ti me oftern enough in JK2 that i know from experience.

Shocker that's my old avater!

How about using a fire hose or something to batter him to the ground and probably cause him to lose his light saber... then shoot him.

Alternatively, shoot him with a "slugthrower" firing a really really high caliber bullet, so tht the bullet diameter is greater than the width of the cutting part of the blade.

The bullet would then be cut in two and the two pieces would keep going and nail the Jedi.

Although that being said, if the Jedi sees in advance that he won't be able to block the upcoming attack, he will get out of the way. A prime example of this is Mace Windu jumping away to avoid Jango's flamethrower.

Manji wrote:Although that being said, if the Jedi sees in advance that he won't be able to block the upcoming attack, he will get out of the way. A prime example of this is Mace Windu jumping away to avoid Jango's flamethrower.

But Mace still didnt get out of the way fast enough to avoid his robe catching fire. Flames dont move as fast as bullets. Jumping out of the way isnt a sure thing. The jedi might be fast enough or they might not.

Manji wrote:How about using a fire hose or something to batter him to the ground and probably cause him to lose his light saber... then shoot him.

Alternatively, shoot him with a "slugthrower" firing a really really high caliber bullet, so tht the bullet diameter is greater than the width of the cutting part of the blade.

The bullet would then be cut in two and the two pieces would keep going and nail the Jedi.

Although that being said, if the Jedi sees in advance that he won't be able to block the upcoming attack, he will get out of the way. A prime example of this is Mace Windu jumping away to avoid Jango's flamethrower.

You'd need something like a 60-75mm round to do that. Maybe if you had it mounted on a AT-PT it could work, but then I'd just auto the blasters and grenade launcher. If your limited to hand held better to just have exploding rounds fused to explode a meter or so in front of the Jedi.

I wounder how small a blaster type weapon you can have that can flak burst?

Kon_El wrote:

Manji wrote:Although that being said, if the Jedi sees in advance that he won't be able to block the upcoming attack, he will get out of the way. A prime example of this is Mace Windu jumping away to avoid Jango's flamethrower.

But Mace still didnt get out of the way fast enough to avoid his robe catching fire. Flames dont move as fast as bullets. Jumping out of the way isnt a sure thing. The jedi might be fast enough or they might not.

Yeah but the range was so short the Jedi would normally have already taken off your arm or head with a saber. In most cases you can't expect to get that close before combat starts.

Kon_El wrote:But Mace still didnt get out of the way fast enough to avoid his robe catching fire. Flames dont move as fast as bullets. Jumping out of the way isnt a sure thing. The jedi might be fast enough or they might not.

Well wow, the robe is not as fast as Mace, why because it's a loose piece of clothing thats bound not be as fast as him.