StarDestroyer.Net BBS

My favorite bodies are the magic disappearing stormtroopers in Jedi Outcast. They literally persisted only while they were on your field of vision. My favorite game between killings was to look away and then look back VERY fast, to see if they would still be there.

Vendetta wrote:

DPDarkPrimus wrote:One of the best games involving non-dissapearing bodies was Deus Ex. Such as in the first level- it's reccomended that you not use lethal force, and after your mission is done, you have to walk through the level again, seeing all the people you killed.

Not quite.

Y'see, all the enemies die automatically at the end of the level.

Only in levels such as Liberty Island, where the place was supposedly retaken, is it obvious. Most of the other levels, if you were backtracking, they would have already have been taken out by you somehow, or you wouldn't encounter them anyways.

DPDarkPrimus wrote:

Vendetta wrote:

DPDarkPrimus wrote:One of the best games involving non-dissapearing bodies was Deus Ex. Such as in the first level- it's reccomended that you not use lethal force, and after your mission is done, you have to walk through the level again, seeing all the people you killed.

Not quite.

Y'see, all the enemies die automatically at the end of the level.

Only in levels such as Liberty Island, where the place was supposedly retaken, is it obvious. Most of the other levels, if you were backtracking, they would have already have been taken out by you somehow, or you wouldn't encounter them anyways.

I'm not sure if you meant to say this or not, but enemies automatically dying is NOT the default behaviour. It is specially scripted in areas where UNATCO troops take over the area after you have completed your objectives, of which there are only two: Liberty Island and Lebedev's airfield.

Also, of course, even for those levels it does keep track of many kills you personally were responsible for, and will adjust characters' dialogue and reactions accordingly. (UNATCO troops cheering you on, Paul scolding you, Sam Carter withholding supplies, etc).

Vendetta wrote: Deus Ex is great for giving the impression that your actions matter, but some of the scripting is very simplistic.

Not nearly as simplistic as you think, apparently, but yes, it's all about impressions. It's still better than most games I've played, including its own sequel.

To get back to the original subject: I think everyone likes a game which will leave around reminders of their accomplishments, whether they're scattered corpses or end-of-level statistics, and they're especially nice when they're presented as part of the in-game world. A good example would be Thief 3, where the city guard will post a daily crime bulletin in each district which tallies the crimes committed by you on your previous visit to that particular district.

Ugh. I hate Deus Ex. I'm sure the story is wonderful (what I saw sucked) and I'm sure some people think choosing between two largely useless mods for each location was good or something, but the scripting was simplistic and heavy handed.

Y'know that Arnie guy? The hardcore cyborg? If the game hadn't cheated, he'd have died when he tried to capture you in the subway - I used an enourmous amount of bombs and guns and shit on him, but he's invincible. Flexible storyline my ass. Funny, I don't want some software dev graduate's idea of a hip scifi story.

In regards to the OP, now that I think about, dead bodies are awesome and a must have in FPS's, no doubt (although, I can live with disappearing units in FPS as long as it's getting blown up or some ratioanlization).

Like Call of Duty, I'll be running around, and in a big game (30 and up) sometimes you'll see round a corner after running into one too many enemies and then let loose on a dead body that you thought was a camper in the prone about to light you the hells up. Awesome.

And it IS really aweful when the bodies disappear, especially right in front of you face or if you turn your back. It's also just to see dozens of dead bodies everywhere you go, especially in big team deathmatches.

Maybe some game could make it so that when a character dies, they get, I dunno, re-rendered (or whatnot, I don't know you you'd go about what I'm trying to convey) so the dead body takes up less memory and simply let bodies stay there forever (I'm talking for both RTS's, turn based ones and FPS's; dead bodies are good )

ALTHOUGH, I'm all for the dead bodies disappearing in a deathmatch-type game in an FPS; the stacks of meat would just get excessive. Especially since those games sometimes just got a time limit and go up to 1000 combined kills.

Echoing many before me, the dead bopdies tell a story.

AAfter a battle in ROme i can look and go:

"Those few are where archers picked them off, that's when i finally got the charge in and that big long line is where they tried to out run guys on horses."

Mm. Seeing the scattered debris of Arm Tanks and K-bots (and the Core units that died to end their little rebellion) littering the landscape is one of my personal pleasures. My friend has a TA strategy of hiding behind a wall of defenses and nuking his way to victory, but that's no 'fun'.

The piles of shattered debris and ruined machines are a signifier that something major happened here, that your actions have had a consequence that led to these ruins being here. That's what I don't like about the super-weapons in TA. They clear the map entirely, leaving no debris, no signifier that the target was worth anything.
Perhaps that's it. It's just a sign that these units represent something of value to each side. Now, they lie broken and smashed, a sign of victory to one and defeat to the other.

Or perhaps I over-analyse. *shrugs*

Stark wrote:Ugh. I hate Deus Ex. I'm sure the story is wonderful (what I saw sucked) and I'm sure some people think choosing between two largely useless mods for each location was good or something, but the scripting was simplistic and heavy handed.

Y'know that Arnie guy? The hardcore cyborg? If the game hadn't cheated, he'd have died when he tried to capture you in the subway - I used an enourmous amount of bombs and guns and shit on him, but he's invincible. Flexible storyline my ass. Funny, I don't want some software dev graduate's idea of a hip scifi story.

Sure, because you can't kill him, the game sucks?

Too bad you didn't keep playing, since the rest of the levels have vast numbers of ways to beat them (including when you do finally get to kill Gunther- you can take him down without firing a shot if you do it right), and let's not forget the different endings... oh, did I mention you can save Paul?

Yeah but why would you want to save Paul. He was a moralistic pain in the ass. Atleast Jock was cool enough to be worth saving.

Lord Pounder wrote:Yeah but why would you want to save Paul. He was a moralistic pain in the ass. Atleast Jock was cool enough to be worth saving.

Because anything you can do with six crates of TNT (scroll down to "Saint Paul - The Wrath of God") is worth doing.

"Sunglasses At Night" is, bar-none, the greatest walkthrough written for any game ever. It's fun just to read. Even more fun to play through.

now if you start quoting gengis khan, playing the conan sound track, whilst playing RTW, then things are gettting bad.

The Yosemite Bear wrote:now if you start quoting gengis khan, playing the conan sound track, whilst playing RTW, then things are gettting bad.

How so?

Because if we are glorifying your own ego, and not praising the god emporer your on the path to becoming the next Horus....

Vanas wrote:Mm. Seeing the scattered debris of Arm Tanks and K-bots (and the Core units that died to end their little rebellion) littering the landscape is one of my personal pleasures. My friend has a TA strategy of hiding behind a wall of defenses and nuking his way to victory, but that's no 'fun'.

The piles of shattered debris and ruined machines are a signifier that something major happened here, that your actions have had a consequence that led to these ruins being here. That's what I don't like about the super-weapons in TA. They clear the map entirely, leaving no debris, no signifier that the target was worth anything.
Perhaps that's it. It's just a sign that these units represent something of value to each side. Now, they lie broken and smashed, a sign of victory to one and defeat to the other.

Or perhaps I over-analyse. *shrugs*

Well, a Buzzsaw *is* pretty clean, but there is the good old Korgoth which always leaves metal. Once I had about 10 Korgoth ruins behind my lines... Nerco bot time!

There is something satisfying about standing tall over the bodies of your fallen foes.