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Interesting, if uninspired take on the Mirror Universe in my viewpoint (blame me for having enjoyed the Shatnerverse's take on the Mirrior Universe in their second trilogy. Now if they would just get Captain's Glory out...)

Given that Mike Sussman's writing, I wasn't shocked about the Defiant. Remember, in the original drafts of Season 2's Future Tense, the Defiant was actually originally menat to appear as the ship the Tholians were trying to salvage. He had to abandon the idea due to cost, but now the sky's the limit.

And the opening credits were great.

Zor wrote:They don't...

The every man for himself ideology, to the point where the average citizen would be considered a raving psycho in normal society? The combination of the worst elements of Nazi Germany and the Mongol hordes? The ideology of world/galactic conquest? The fact they conscript slaves into their armies (granted, in something much less formalized than the Drakan Janissary system). And, of course, let's not forget the commanding officers all seem to be horny bastards.
OK, granted they're not really that close. But they do have a certain similitude. I have an easier time imagining the TE starting out as Draka than say a victorious Third Reich or Soviet Union.

Do you think the snakes would have ASIAN or BLACK Officers?

OK, you have a good point there. I figured maybe if they transferred their racism from other humans to Vulcans and other xenos... Yeah, that's still pretty out of character for the Snakes. If they are Snakes they've evolved almost beyond recognition since the last we checked up on them.

And were is the Symbol of the Domination (Dragon holding a Bushknife and a Slave Chain)

They could easily have changed the flag sometime in a century.

For this statement, you have been deamed Mentally unstable by the Imperial Terran Ministry of Health, and shall undergo corrective nerve stapling.

Can I defect to Draks or TE? Nothing personal but I infinitely prefer both of them to your Imperium: at least they don't hide their true natures behind a smiling paternal mask.
OK, I'll grant the TE having evolved from a victorious Draka is fairly unlikely. Although more likely than that they started out as Nazis or Soviets. Maybe they're colonial Europeans as they would have become if democratic revolutions never happened in France and America. Or, reaching even deeper back, maybe in their universe Sparta contributed more to the development of Western civilization than Athens. The last is probably the best theory. You'd get a culture with a historical origins that seemed similar to ours, but twisted... exactly what you actually see in the mirror universe!

I didn't get to see the opening credits

Ah well, I thought this was a very nice episode. Great change of pace. It was at least better than the one on last week, ugh...

Hawkwings wrote:I didn't get to see the opening credits

Cheer up, the episode is replayed Sunday night

Where can I download that opening scene at?

-Russ

This is the first episode ive seen in a while(and all the way through without changing the channel), and i thought it had an interesting premis. The only thing that bugged me through the whole episode is that everybody seemed to be evil for no real reason. There didnt seem to be any motivation behind there actions other than its "nasty and eeevile". To me a more scary villian is the one that not only has an agenda and reason for the actions they take, but also a position they defend that you actually understand why they defend it.

Jon wrote:[img]+http://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/~mvrojo/mirrorcredits12.jpg[/img]

Quite...

I probably shouldn't be impressed just because B&B got the Terran Empire's symbol right, but I am. What time do the Ent episodes get replayed on Sunday?

Trogdor wrote: What time do the Ent episodes get replayed on Sunday?

10PM EST

Thank you.

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:First Contact is Vulcan invading Earth, Cochrane turns the tide and Vulcan tech is taken.

Women wear tank top uniforms.

Archer is a grouch.

Tholians are giant cockroaches who don't need communication transmitters.

Obviously a near-series ending dog blood spill.

Dont you get it? The Vulcans were not invading earth. Thats just what the humans say. It was exactly like first contact. The vulcans came in peace..the cochran killed them.

Aeolus wrote:

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:First Contact is Vulcan invading Earth, Cochrane turns the tide and Vulcan tech is taken.

Dont you get it? The Vulcans were not invading earth. Thats just what the humans say. It was exactly like first contact. The vulcans came in peace..the cochran killed them.

Later on I heard it was in the opening, I missed the opening

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:

Aeolus wrote:

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:First Contact is Vulcan invading Earth, Cochrane turns the tide and Vulcan tech is taken.

Dont you get it? The Vulcans were not invading earth. Thats just what the humans say. It was exactly like first contact. The vulcans came in peace..the cochran killed them.

Later on I heard it was in the opening, I missed the opening

lol
The opening credits are brilliant. When the delta type starship flys over the moon...and NUKES the colony I laughed so hard I thought I would hurt myself

Maybe the Mirror Universe is how things would have ended up if the events of First Contact hadn't occured...

Drooling Iguana wrote:Maybe the Mirror Universe is how things would have ended up if the events of First Contact hadn't occured...

but it did occur. just with a twist

Aeolus wrote:

Drooling Iguana wrote:Maybe the Mirror Universe is how things would have ended up if the events of First Contact hadn't occured...

but it did occur. just with a twist

I didn't see any evidence indicating the presence of the Ent-E crew in the clips we saw.

The hostility of the humans during first contact and the opening credits with the alternative moon landing, for example, would suggest that the divergence point for the Mirror Universe was some time before first contact.

Jon wrote:The hostility of the humans during first contact and the opening credits with the alternative moon landing, for example, would suggest that the divergence point for the Mirror Universe was some time before first contact.

The altered moon landing could have been revisionist history on the part of the Empire.

Its too bad that this wasn't a pilot episode for the next trek series:

Star Trek: Mirror Universe.

Here's a screenie of the Tholian for anyone who hasnt seen it.

Woah. Okay, that's actually kind of cool.

EDIT: There's actually a clearer image over at the ST Wiki Memory Alpha:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:MirrorTholian.jpg

Drooling Iguana wrote:Maybe the Mirror Universe is how things would have ended up if the events of First Contact hadn't occured...

True. Maybe that's how Cochrane the drunk would have reacted to the Vulcans landing if the E-E's crew hadn't been there to give him some forewarning. After all, didn't Lilly try to mow them all down with an assault rifle earlier in the movie?

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:

Jon wrote:

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:First Contact is Vulcan invading Earth, Cochrane turns the tide and Vulcan tech is taken.

Wait, the Vulcans invade a planet that is in ruins and has one shitty converted missile warp ship and they LOSE!?

It was in dialogue, and its in the Mirror Universe, so it's kind of hard to determine the details.

But keep in mind the accusations of a Vulcan invasion fleet are from a human - the opening sequence, which shows the first contact, shows nothing to indicate either way whether the Vulcans are invading or not invading.

In this version of the first contact, instead of shaking hands with the Vulcan Zephram Cochrane shoots him instead and armed humans storm the Vulcan ship.

Dunno, I've never watched "Tholian Web", but I have to say, the CGI effects on the Tholian used in this eps is very, very, very , heathenly crappy.

This is actually the first time that I can we recall that we get to see a Tholian. In the Old Series we never saw the Tholians, just the outside of their ships and their "web". That's it.

Because the old series didn't have the effects technology we do now it was a lot more common to simply never show an alien, just let you imagine it. "Is There in Truth No Beauty" was another TOS episode where the alien was imiplied, but never ever shown.

Wrong, We did see Tholian Commander Loskene in "The Tholian Web," as I already showed on the first page, but here it is again:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Tholian.jpg

However, this is the first time we've seen them clearly.

You dont remember Commander Loskine of the Tholian Assembly?

This is the first appearance of a Tholian below the neck, but we did see what they looked like when he and Spock had a discussion while waiting for the Defiant to re-appear (which she didnt)

Have to catch it on replay on Sunday, sounds worth a look

spongyblue wrote:This is the first episode ive seen in a while(and all the way through without changing the channel), and i thought it had an interesting premis. The only thing that bugged me through the whole episode is that everybody seemed to be evil for no real reason. There didnt seem to be any motivation behind there actions other than its "nasty and eeevile". To me a more scary villian is the one that not only has an agenda and reason for the actions they take, but also a position they defend that you actually understand why they defend it.

I would have to agree. I've only seen a little bit, but there seriously could be a lot less ham in the acting department. It's almost hard to watch.