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Castor Troy wrote:Be it from the books, movies, whatever.

What's your favorite "Bad Guy" from Star Wars?

Be it the Sith, Empire, Yuuzhan Vong, etc..

My favorite are the Yevethans. Xenophobic and capable of improving technology. Kind of like the Moties of the Star Wars universe, they must be contained or else it's over.

See the sig.

Pure Sabacc wrote:

Srynerson wrote:The Nagai -- extra-galactic invaders who aren't terminally silly like the Vong.

Arent the Nagai the Space Pirate-ninjas?

I never thought of them as such, although they did have a tendency to dress in black. I'm curious to know why they merit an eye-roll, however.

I never thought of them as such, although they did have a tendency to dress in black. I'm curious to know why they merit an eye-roll, however.

It was in relation to the Vong comment you made.

Pure Sabacc wrote:

I never thought of them as such, although they did have a tendency to dress in black. I'm curious to know why they merit an eye-roll, however.

It was in relation to the Vong comment you made.

I stand by the position that the Nagai are less silly than the Vong based on the following points:

1. No biotech.

2. They cooperate with surviving elements of the Empire.

3. No counterproductive self-mutilation.

4. Their footsoldiers aren't absurdly overpowered so as to be able to go toe-to-toe with Jedi.

Maybe there's something I'm forgetting about them, but they seem more "realistic" than the Vong (or the Ssi-ruuk with their soul-powered equipment, for that matter).

1. No biotech.

Some hate the Bio, some dont mind. Its pulled off better in some books than others.

2. They cooperate with surviving elements of the Empire.

Okaaay....

3. No counterproductive self-mutilation.

A good deal of religions are pretty zanny, and it fits in with the Vong's willingness to sacrifice themselves at the drop of the hat.

4. Their footsoldiers aren't absurdly overpowered so as to be able to go toe-to-toe with Jedi.

After the first few engagements, any Jedi is more than a match for virtually any Vong warrior, and more.

Pure Sabacc wrote:

2. They cooperate with surviving elements of the Empire.

Okaaay....

I should have clarified that, apparently. If you're an extra-galactic power, doesn't it make more sense to cooperate with elements within the galaxy in the short-run rather than simply trying to conquer everyone (which creates the risk that the factions will unite against you)? For an historical analogy, think of how European powers typically co-opted local factions as part of facilitating their colonization efforts.

The soldiers had a special advantage over the Jedi, I should point out. It's not that they were absurdly powerful. A sniper has no problem taking out a Vong with a nice headshot. A trooper with a big blaster cannon can go right through the armor, and a well aimed shot with a pistol can kill them as well.

Praxis wrote:The soldiers had a special advantage over the Jedi, I should point out. It's not that they were absurdly powerful. A sniper has no problem taking out a Vong with a nice headshot. A trooper with a big blaster cannon can go right through the armor, and a well aimed shot with a pistol can kill them as well.

Lando's YVK droids tear through them like tissue paper.

And I will admit srynerson, that Vong Military strategy leaves something to be desired.

Pure Sabacc wrote:

Praxis wrote:The soldiers had a special advantage over the Jedi, I should point out. It's not that they were absurdly powerful. A sniper has no problem taking out a Vong with a nice headshot. A trooper with a big blaster cannon can go right through the armor, and a well aimed shot with a pistol can kill them as well.

Lando's YVK droids tear through them like tissue paper.

And I will admit srynerson, that Vong Military strategy leaves something to be desired.

It's very similar to the Klingon strategy in combat, run at the enemies. Except they do bother to use projectile weaponry and cover fire, and armor that can actually take a hit except from large cannons.

In the conquest strategy, actually, the Vong DID do it right. They ONLY invaded the NR. They made treaties with the Empire, made deals with the Hutts, put smuggler groups on their payroll, started spy organizations, promised planets protection in exchange for alliances, etc. Remember the Peace Brigade?

Remember the Peace Brigade?

Bitches.

I am quite fond of the Imperial Reminant. They have a good leader in Pellaeon and have all the coolness of the GE without the xenophobia and dumb leadership.

Praxis wrote: In the conquest strategy, actually, the Vong DID do it right. They ONLY invaded the NR. They made treaties with the Empire, made deals with the Hutts, put smuggler groups on their payroll, started spy organizations, promised planets protection in exchange for alliances, etc. Remember the Peace Brigade?

WTF? no they didn't. They just ignored them and hoped the Remnant would do the same.

Indeed no self respecting Moff would sign a treaty with an alien much less one from outside the known galaxy.

Lord Pounder wrote:I am quite fond of the Imperial Reminant. They have a good leader in Pellaeon and have all the coolness of the GE without the xenophobia and dumb leadership.

Pellaeon was always my favorite Imperial (save Vader and Thrawn.) Served under Thrawn, turned the Remnant into a decent organization, wasnt crazy or ever really a villan, signed the Treaty with the NR, and most importantly put up with Dalaa. If a man can survive a few years of her without killing himself, he is truely a king among men.

Pure Sabacc wrote:Grand Admiral Thrawn.

Best.

EU Character.

Ever.

I was never that impressed by Thrawn. It seemed like Zahn just started wanking over the character big time. It wasn't enough that he be a military genius. No. He had to be the invincible, super duper, end all and be all of military genius, who is always thirteen steps ahead of his adversaries, effortlessly outwits even the cleverest of them, and is a hundred times the military genius than any other commander has ever been. And then, it wasn't enough that he be the greatest military genius ever, ever, ever. He had to be mysterious, and inscrutable, and derive his superior knowledge of his enemies by an extremely mysterious, esoteric means that he and he alone was clever enough to read (and he was so clever, that it told him everything he ever wanted to know about his enemy, up to and including whether or not he likes two ply, quilted toilet paper) -- art.

I was never that impressed by Thrawn. It seemed like Zahn just started wanking over the character big time. It wasn't enough that he be a military genius. No. He had to be the invincible, super duper, end all and be all of military genius, who is always thirteen steps ahead of his adversaries, effortlessly outwits even the cleverest of them, and is a hundred times the military genius than any other commander has ever been. And then, it wasn't enough that he be the greatest military genius ever, ever, ever. He had to be mysterious, and inscrutable, and derive his superior knowledge of his enemies by an extremely mysterious, esoteric means that he and he alone was clever enough to read (and he was so clever, that it told him everything he ever wanted to know about his enemy, up to and including whether or not he likes two ply, quilted toilet paper) -- art.

And.............


He's a military genius, true, and he has an orginal way of scoping out his opponents. He's not insane, he's not a shapeshifter, he's not a clone, he doesnt use Biotech.........

Whats wrong with him?

The Best Villian, Either Dooku or Palpatine. Palpatine is just evil, but Dooku has something most other villans don't have- that Aristocratic Neener that can't be beat. Do certain groupings of larger Groups count?

EU: Thrawn. something about a blue skinned, red eyed alien lol

movies I don't think there could be a real arguement against Palpy or Vader. imo

Darth Vader. Everyone else is a pretender, except PT Palpatine, thanks to Ian McDiarmid's performance.

By "everyone else", I mean everyone else in the movies. The EU villains aren't worthy of being mentioned in the same post as Darth Vader.

Isolder74 wrote:

Joe wrote:Vader is not only the best villain in Star Wars, but maybe the best in movies, period. The only real competition IMO is Hannibal Lecter.

And Norman Bates

Bah!, bah! I say!. Lecter is too much of a ham and Bates simply isn't scary at all.

Pure Sabacc wrote:

I was never that impressed by Thrawn. It seemed like Zahn just started wanking over the character big time. It wasn't enough that he be a military genius. No. He had to be the invincible, super duper, end all and be all of military genius, who is always thirteen steps ahead of his adversaries, effortlessly outwits even the cleverest of them, and is a hundred times the military genius than any other commander has ever been. And then, it wasn't enough that he be the greatest military genius ever, ever, ever. He had to be mysterious, and inscrutable, and derive his superior knowledge of his enemies by an extremely mysterious, esoteric means that he and he alone was clever enough to read (and he was so clever, that it told him everything he ever wanted to know about his enemy, up to and including whether or not he likes two ply, quilted toilet paper) -- art.

And.............


He's a military genius, true, and he has an orginal way of scoping out his opponents. He's not insane, he's not a shapeshifter, he's not a clone, he doesnt use Biotech.........

Whats wrong with him?

He's infallible. That's what's wrong with him. He might as well be a shapeshifter or use biotech. His genius is represented as being such an order of magnitude greater than anyone else's that it might as well be a superpower. He never makes a mistake. Never makes a tactical blunder. Never suffers a temporary reverse. EVER. Not even small ones. This looks like Zahn wanking over him to me. His way of scoping out opponents isn't "original", it's simply not plausible. It strikes me as Zahn trying too hard to make him look vastly cleverer than anyone around him. Rather than having him size up his opponents in any realistic or plausible way, he launches into a bunch of mystical, zen-like nonsense.

He'd have been a lot better a character if he'd been shown as less than perfect (from a military standpoint).

He's infallible. That's what's wrong with him. He might as well be a shapeshifter or use biotech. His genius is represented as being such an order of magnitude greater than anyone else's that it might as well be a superpower. He never makes a mistake. Never makes a tactical blunder. Never suffers a temporary reverse. EVER. Not even small ones. This looks like Zahn wanking over him to me. His way of scoping out opponents isn't "original", it's simply not plausible. It strikes me as Zahn trying too hard to make him look vastly cleverer than anyone around him. Rather than having him size up his opponents in any realistic or plausible way, he launches into a bunch of mystical, zen-like nonsense.

He'd have been a lot better a character if he'd been shown as less than perfect (from a military standpoint).

Gee, infallible, I guess your right.....

but I guess his inability to judge the true motives and character of his closest body guard, a failing that lead to his death, just didnt happen. I guess your right. Oh, and the Battle of Sulis Van, that never happened either. Nope, all illusions of the liberal media.

He never makes a mistake. Never makes a tactical blunder. Never suffers a temporary reverse. EVER. Not even small ones. This looks like Zahn wanking over him to me.

This tells me that you didn't really read the Heir to the Empire trilogy. You're exaggerating big time.

He's view is quite reasonable. And Zahn's complete SW technical and military ignorance doesn't help.

Vympel wrote:This tells me that you didn't really read the Heir to the Empire trilogy. You're exaggerating big time.

The Sluis Van operation was a failure; he didn't get the ships he
was stealing from the shipyard.