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Knife wrote:I look at it this way:

In the prequels, the Jedi train with Lightsaber's from about the begaining of their training(AotC, we see the children w/ saber's with Yoda). Having trained with saber's for 10 to 15 years before going out into the big bad world, would mean that most Jedi are true swordmasters and have developed styles and particular methods of fighting.

snip
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I think that in the Novel AOTC,it is mentioned that Dooku was more of a true swordsman in that he trained for sword on sword combat, whereas most Jedi trained for 'sword on most other things, other than a sword'.

SO it could be said that Dooku not only had the experience of age,but he also had the benifit of being a properly trained swordsman,compared to most jedi, who were experienced in deflecting blaster bolts but not swordfighting. Perhaps true swordfighting was concidered an anachronism as no one other than jedi had them, much like in RL with firearms vs swords.

desertjedi wrote:snip
As for the Jedi being at their prime in this period, we know that is not true. When Yoda and Windu are talking about the dark side interfering with their use of the Force, that would apply when dueling. Yes I know they had years of training with the lightsaber with and without the Force, but that does not help them at all when they need to be almost precognitive to not only block blaster fire, but to redirect it at their enemy, or when facing the almost precognitive skills of a sith lord or apprentice. They still need the force to duel effectively. Well that was just my two cents worth, feel free to flame...LOL

I dont think that the 'clouding of the force' affected the Jedi'sabilities in a fight and tactical efforts or personal capabilities. The fighting comes down to training and expereience when all other things being equel, as such Dooku and Yoda are better than Anakin and Kenobi.
What it does means is that Palpy is preventing them from seeing things on a much broader scale, for example hiding the tampering of the location of Kamino, or the preperation of the clone army.
Think of it this way, no one can change your personal knowledge, what you already know. They can deprive you of information to make certain choices and use the ability to deprive information to manipulate you.
You would not nessarily know, because your information flow is predetermined without your knowledge, thus to a large degree what you do is detirmined by the person/s who control what you know.

I just thought it was a question of different swordfighting techniques.

Stuart Mackey wrote:

Knife wrote:I look at it this way:

In the prequels, the Jedi train with Lightsaber's from about the begaining of their training(AotC, we see the children w/ saber's with Yoda). Having trained with saber's for 10 to 15 years before going out into the big bad world, would mean that most Jedi are true swordmasters and have developed styles and particular methods of fighting.

snip
.

I think that in the Novel AOTC,it is mentioned that Dooku was more of a true swordsman in that he trained for sword on sword combat, whereas most Jedi trained for 'sword on most other things, other than a sword'.

SO it could be said that Dooku not only had the experience of age,but he also had the benifit of being a properly trained swordsman,compared to most jedi, who were experienced in deflecting blaster bolts but not swordfighting. Perhaps true swordfighting was concidered an anachronism as no one other than jedi had them, much like in RL with firearms vs swords.

I would call it more of a specialization than anything else. Dooku's style was specificly for countering other lightsaber styles, while others centered around defending the Jedi from various other threats but would include general sword on sword training.

Since there are what? Seven different styles, one could say that each one specializes on one issue or another, Dooku just had the advantage that his style was specificly designed to counter other lightsaber styles.

Knife wrote:

Stuart Mackey wrote:

Knife wrote:I look at it this way:

In the prequels, the Jedi train with Lightsaber's from about the begaining of their training(AotC, we see the children w/ saber's with Yoda). Having trained with saber's for 10 to 15 years before going out into the big bad world, would mean that most Jedi are true swordmasters and have developed styles and particular methods of fighting.

snip
.

I think that in the Novel AOTC,it is mentioned that Dooku was more of a true swordsman in that he trained for sword on sword combat, whereas most Jedi trained for 'sword on most other things, other than a sword'.

SO it could be said that Dooku not only had the experience of age,but he also had the benifit of being a properly trained swordsman,compared to most jedi, who were experienced in deflecting blaster bolts but not swordfighting. Perhaps true swordfighting was concidered an anachronism as no one other than jedi had them, much like in RL with firearms vs swords.

I would call it more of a specialization than anything else. Dooku's style was specificly for countering other lightsaber styles, while others centered around defending the Jedi from various other threats but would include general sword on sword training.

Since there are what? Seven different styles, one could say that each one specializes on one issue or another, Dooku just had the advantage that his style was specificly designed to counter other lightsaber styles.

If any of you subsribe to SW Insider, I suggest you look at Sept.'s edition. It includes a lengthy and detailed description of all seven fighting forms, and how they are best used. And if you don't subscirde to it, then look in your nearest bookstore. I suggest you all read it.

Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader wrote: If any of you subsribe to SW Insider, I suggest you look at Sept.'s edition. It includes a lengthy and detailed description of all seven fighting forms, and how they are best used. And if you don't subscirde to it, then look in your nearest bookstore. I suggest you all read it.

Incidentally, note the obvious parallelism with the Seven Deadly Sins.

Knife wrote:

Stuart Mackey wrote:

Knife wrote:I look at it this way:

In the prequels, the Jedi train with Lightsaber's from about the begaining of their training(AotC, we see the children w/ saber's with Yoda). Having trained with saber's for 10 to 15 years before going out into the big bad world, would mean that most Jedi are true swordmasters and have developed styles and particular methods of fighting.

snip
.

I think that in the Novel AOTC,it is mentioned that Dooku was more of a true swordsman in that he trained for sword on sword combat, whereas most Jedi trained for 'sword on most other things, other than a sword'.

SO it could be said that Dooku not only had the experience of age,but he also had the benifit of being a properly trained swordsman,compared to most jedi, who were experienced in deflecting blaster bolts but not swordfighting. Perhaps true swordfighting was concidered an anachronism as no one other than jedi had them, much like in RL with firearms vs swords.

I would call it more of a specialization than anything else. Dooku's style was specificly for countering other lightsaber styles, while others centered around defending the Jedi from various other threats but would include general sword on sword training.

Since there are what? Seven different styles, one could say that each one specializes on one issue or another, Dooku just had the advantage that his style was specificly designed to counter other lightsaber styles.

What I mentioned in above was from the Novel..I will have to re-read it again to be sure, but that was the jist of it, Dooku was a better treained swordsman compared to other Jedi.

Lord Sauron-Tyranus-Vader wrote:If any of you subsribe to SW Insider, I suggest you look at Sept.'s edition. It includes a lengthy and detailed description of all seven fighting forms, and how they are best used. And if you don't subscirde to it, then look in your nearest bookstore. I suggest you all read it.

I suggest you OCR it and show it to us or your ass is grass.

Please?

Master of Ossus wrote:Incidentally, note the obvious parallelism with the Seven Deadly Sins.

Whats the second one?

Form II- Dooku's style.

Vympel wrote:Form II- Dooku's style.

No, the deadly sins I mean.

His Divine Shadow wrote:Given that the subject came up, I don't like the idea that Vader was crippled because of his injuries, I mean to me it always looked like his armored suit enhanched his physical prowess, even though technically he was crippled.

I have to agree with that. Injuries or not, Vaders mostly cyborg nature was supposed to make him scarier, not wimpier. Lucas' comment about "a farm boy fighting a cripple" was probably just a snide remark and an indication of how he planned to fill the PT with flashy choreographed fights and other eye candy. You can see for example how the Prequels use almost exclusively "tap" saber bouncing, and in RoTJ you clearly see Luke actually pushing Vader's saber away applying force to it when he was enraged (and hitting the scenery more often than his opponent sword by the way ).

Never mind the fact that Vader's armor does protect him to a great extent from being damaged, except when his hand was chopped (also with an extremely forceful attack).

Slartibartfast wrote:

His Divine Shadow wrote:Given that the subject came up, I don't like the idea that Vader was crippled because of his injuries, I mean to me it always looked like his armored suit enhanched his physical prowess, even though technically he was crippled.

I have to agree with that. Injuries or not, Vaders mostly cyborg nature was supposed to make him scarier, not wimpier. Lucas' comment about "a farm boy fighting a cripple" was probably just a snide remark and an indication of how he planned to fill the PT with flashy choreographed fights and other eye candy. You can see for example how the Prequels use almost exclusively "tap" saber bouncing, and in RoTJ you clearly see Luke actually pushing Vader's saber away applying force to it when he was enraged (and hitting the scenery more often than his opponent sword by the way ).

Never mind the fact that Vader's armor does protect him to a great extent from being damaged, except when his hand was chopped (also with an extremely forceful attack).

Your right about the strength part, by virtue of wearing the suit, it decresses his agility. Most of his moves are slashing moves from above his head. With his suit in the way, he can't have a two handed grip and strike from a diagnal. He also can't jump around doing flip flops alot due to the restrictions of the suit. As alway's IMHO.

His Divine Shadow wrote:

Master of Ossus wrote:Incidentally, note the obvious parallelism with the Seven Deadly Sins.

Whats the second one?

The second form, or the second Deadly Sin?

His Divine Shadow wrote:

Vympel wrote:Form II- Dooku's style.

No, the deadly sins I mean.

Oh, sorry, the deadly sins are:

Pride (the sin of Lucifer, and thus the worst one)
Envy
Gluttony
Lust
Anger
Greed
Sloth

In my opinion, barring any amazing developments in Ep. 3 (which would be Really Cool (tm) ) the final battle between Vader and Luke is the best one. Everything comes together to form a powerful scene, charged with emotion.

The newer battles, while looking cool, just lack a certain depth.