StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Mr Bean wrote:

Embracer Of Darkness wrote: As I previously mentioned; It's actually Asus boards that are renowned for being a slight pain to set up, especially when you have to disable the crap they often stick on it, and they're simply not as reliable as DFI boards either in my experience. I'm making the total switch from Asus to DFI soon, I'd call anyone crazy not to.

How about the fact Asus has a long history of quality and DFI is just getting it togther?

IIRC, DFI's a newcomer to the retail parts market but they have been OEM'ing for some of the larger PC makers for years.
I've used Asus, Abit, MSI, Intel, and DFI boards when building systems, and strangely enough the only board that I've had go bad on me was an Intel branded 845G board.
I'd avoid PCChips and the like, but I would have no problem with purchasing an Asus, Abit, MSI or DFI board

If overclocking is your goal, I'd go with the DFI simply because you can get answers to your questions about how to do it on their support forum.
Unless they've changed, Asus doesn't offer that kind of support.

BTW, DFI now has the engineer (Oskar Wu) who designed the famous incredible-overclock capable Abit boards working for them.

Embracer Of Darkness wrote:By the way, ArrowMk84...

Just in case you're into ATI and considering going CrossFire instead of SLi at any point in the future, you may wish to feast your eyes on this beauty from Sapphire which is due out later this month.



The Sapphire PURE CrossFire Radeon Xpress 200P. Gorgeous.

Ugh, SLI, what a waste.

SLI? A waste? While it is expensive and a luxery item, it can't be said that in many cases it dosn't pay off.

Glocksman wrote: BTW, DFI now has the engineer (Oskar Wu) who designed the famous incredible-overclock capable Abit boards working for them.

Did he jump ship or working two jobs? I've noticed ABIT boards have taken a distinctive nosdive since around the time of the Fatality series was released.

They took a nosedive because fucking ABIT went to cater to the enthusiasist crowd while not having any good quality.

I reccomend DFI, both for its marginal gains over ASUS, and its good forums, OC capability and RAM support.

Glocksman wrote:I've used Asus, Abit, MSI, Intel, and DFI boards when building systems, and strangely enough the only board that I've had go bad on me was an Intel branded 845G board.

Wow, that's bizarre. Intel boards are probably some of the best made in the industry.

phongn wrote:

Glocksman wrote:I've used Asus, Abit, MSI, Intel, and DFI boards when building systems, and strangely enough the only board that I've had go bad on me was an Intel branded 845G board.

Wow, that's bizarre. Intel boards are probably some of the best made in the industry.

That's why I said 'strangely enough'.

Did he jump ship or working two jobs? I've noticed ABIT boards have taken a distinctive nosdive since around the time of the Fatality series was released.

I think he jumped ship as the mod of the DFI-street board said they 'lured him away' from Abit.

Mr Bean wrote:Good job on missing the point, agian lets try this agian...

Or you can read what I'm saying; I've personally used, stress-tested, and benchmarked plenty of motherboards on the market today. You have admitted that you have not. Therefore I am telling you that DFI motherboards perform better than Asus ones, and are more reliable.

Why are parts made in Japan better than those made in China?

Yet another strawman? You're getting boring... I am not denying that China can produce quality products, but the fact is most companies ship cheap shit from China because cheap shit in China is in-fact cheaper than cheap shit in western Europe or the U.S. Either you truely do not know this, or you're being purposefully dense.

Most manufacturers of graphics cards, motherboards, PSU's, and anything else that requires anonymous little parts usually opt for the cheaper labour and cheap shit components. I was simply stating that Asus are one of these companies, and that DFI specifically get parts from Japan that are made specifically with quality in mind.

Now, I ask you... Since both boards cost roughly the same, why should someone buy the one with Chinese-made components that were made at the least possible cost and by underpaid labour when they could get quality components for no extra cost?

I see, so the common Red Chinaman is incapable of making high quality parts and must set low quality standards(Or Lower than Japan's standards)
Do you acutal even know what standards Japan, or China for that matter sets? Which standards in question are lower than Japan.
The reason I'm pushing you on this is because the "Japan=High Standards" is a brain bug in most industries and its something that often touted but rarley real.

Oh yeah, use sly accusations of me being prejudice against the "common red Chinaman" to make your point. Fuck off you piece of shit, there's not a racist bone in my body.

Go back and read my previous point in this post; It's the corporations who go to cheap suppliers in places like China and Taiwan. While places like China and Taiwan are perfectly capable of producing quality items, most corporations (Asus in this case) opt for cheaper components made my cheaper labour.

Why do you think that many companies now outsource their call-centres to India? Or are you completely fucking ignorant of how these people work? Hint: It's because Indian labour is fucking cheap. Try accusing me of being racist/nationalist again, I dare you.

Its not like I can throw 3dMark or Sandra on there and bust out a 24 hour burn in session at will.

Well, like I said... Get to work doing so and your almost-fanwhorish bullshit will have the slightest bit of merit. As someone who does bust out benchmarks and stress tests I am telling you that DFI boards outperform and outlast Asus ones. You can either accept that you don't have a clue what you're talking about, or you can continue making bullshit strawmen and veiled racist/nationalist accusations (of course, continuing to do so will just result in me wasting no more time on you.)

Ace Pace wrote:SLI? A waste? While it is expensive and a luxery item, it can't be said that in many cases it dosn't pay off.

For idiots who have to have the biggest e-penis possible, yes, it can definitely give significant performance increases. However, on a price/performance basis, it simply is grossly inefficient. One would be much better served getting a 7800 than twin 6800's, or a 6800 than twin 6600's.

So, yes, it is a waste.

Uraniun235 wrote:Ugh, SLI, what a waste.

As someone else pointed out, SLi is a luxury to those who can afford it, and it does vastly improve performance in 3D gaming (particularly when using things like antialiasing to improve image quality.)

Having an SLi motherboard, without using SLi, also has the benefit of cheap upgrading. If I bought a 7800GTX now, as that single 7800GTX is beginning to lose kick (and as prices of them drop) I could buy a second on to augment it. This is a better solution for most people than completely replacing an older card.

Uraniun235 wrote:

Ace Pace wrote:SLI? A waste? While it is expensive and a luxery item, it can't be said that in many cases it dosn't pay off.

For idiots who have to have the biggest e-penis possible, yes, it can definitely give significant performance increases. However, on a price/performance basis, it simply is grossly inefficient. One would be much better served getting a 7800 than twin 6800's, or a 6800 than twin 6600's.

So, yes, it is a waste.

Or you can get a 7800 now, then put a second in the slot a couple of years later then the first is running games in medium quality and a second would only cost a fraction of what the first did when it was new.

VERY much depending on App, a 6800GT WILL beat out a 6600GT pair in shader limited games(HL2 for example) but in other games the 66GT will happily totter along with higher fillrate.

By the way, Embracer Of Darkness, where do you work that your job is benching hardware?

Ace Pace wrote:By the way, Embracer Of Darkness, where do you work that your job is benching hardware?

I did quite a bit of work for a hardware magazine and website in the UK, which will go anonymous due to potential flak. I was also involved in early benchmarks for the Athlon X2 series, among other recent developments in hardware.

At the moment I'm on incapacity, and so building rigs, stress testing, overclocking, and benchmarking is little more than a hobby.

Embracer Of Darkness wrote:Or you can get a 7800 now, then put a second in the slot a couple of years later then the first is running games in medium quality and a second would only cost a fraction of what the first did when it was new.

However, you've paid a price premium to get that motherboard with SLI, and your scenario is highly contingent on not having to upgrade your motherboard/CPU by the time you need to add another video card. And, if you add another video card before the prices have dropped substantially, then odds are good that your total cost has exceeded what it would have cost to just get a next-gen video card and standard motherboard that would probably provide overall better performance to your SLI'ed budget cards. It's definitely a gamble.

However you add it up, at this time, SLI is not a budget-conscious choice; it can offer premium performance, certainly, but only at premium prices.

Uraniun235 wrote:

Embracer Of Darkness wrote:Or you can get a 7800 now, then put a second in the slot a couple of years later then the first is running games in medium quality and a second would only cost a fraction of what the first did when it was new.

However, you've paid a price premium to get that motherboard with SLI, and your scenario is highly contingent on not having to upgrade your motherboard/CPU by the time you need to add another video card. And, if you add another video card before the prices have dropped substantially, then odds are good that your total cost has exceeded what it would have cost to just get a next-gen video card and standard motherboard that would probably provide overall better performance to your SLI'ed budget cards. It's definitely a gamble.

However you add it up, at this time, SLI is not a budget-conscious choice; it can offer premium performance, certainly, but only at premium prices.

SLi motherboards are growing cheaper all the time now, and SLi is slowly becoming a standard anyway. Soon enough the only non-SLi/Crossfire motherboards will be the ones with AGP slots instead of PCI-E 16x.

As for the issue of buying a second card at a later date, you are correct in that it's a gamble, but it's not an unreasonable one. By the time the 7800 series is running slowly enough to warrant an upgrade, a second 7800 would cost something like a third of the price.

Buying an SLi motherboard and Geforce7 series graphics card now, then buying a second Geforce7 series graphics card later, would be cheaper than buying a Geforce7 series graphics card now and a Geforce* when they are new (and leaving your Geforce7 to gather dust, or selling it, when you could simply continue using it and augmenting it instead.)

Uraniun235 wrote:For idiots who have to have the biggest e-penis possible, yes, it can definitely give significant performance increases. However, on a price/performance basis, it simply is grossly inefficient.

Yes, I have a big e-penis. Kneel before your GOD!

Seriously, I'm planning on this machine on last me more than a couple of years, and I'm sparing no expense to see that happens (although part of me doesn't think its going to last that long). And it's going to have dual 7800GTXs from the get go. This will probably be the last machine I actual get to blow a load of cash on. Is it a super luxury item that I don't need? Yup.

The Mr. Bean/Embracer of Darkness debate aside, I'm planning to go with the DFI board. If it turns out the piece of shit, I'll send it back, get the Asus and use my old computer for a few more days.

The issue of the cheap, exploding capacitors hasn't been issue for me, since I haven't seen any complaints during my forum searchs. I guess the Chinese/Tiawaniese manufacturers fixed that problem.

Arrow Mk84 wrote:The issue of the cheap, exploding capacitors hasn't been issue for me, since I haven't seen any complaints during my forum searchs. I guess the Chinese/Tiawaniese manufacturers fixed that problem.

[light-heartedness] Shut up! D: [/light-heartedness]

Ok, next question: Do SATA 150 and SATA II drives use the same cable? I need to find some longer cables for HDs for cable routing, but Newegg lists them all as 150s.

Yes. Both the same.

Embracer Of Darkness wrote: Or you can read what I'm saying; I've personally used, stress-tested, and benchmarked plenty of motherboards on the market today. You have admitted that you have not. Therefore I am telling you that DFI motherboards perform better than Asus ones, and are more reliable.

First off thanks for quoting the only irrevent part of the post and then responding to that. Good work there. You still have not answeared the question so I'll do another bold trip for you in one line question formation.
When chosing between two company's that have (near) identical preforming products, with near identical features and pricepoint which do you chose? Obviously you look for some other comparsion(Besides color)
The company with a history of quality or the one just making it out the gate. As I state origional I would recommend the Asus board based on personal usage and past preformance with Asus boards while DFI's Lanparty board recieved near identical reviews

Why are parts made in Japan better than those made in China?

Yet another strawman? You're getting boring... I am not denying that China can produce quality products, but the fact is most companies ship cheap shit from China because cheap shit in China is in-fact cheaper than cheap shit in western Europe or the U.S. Either you truely do not know this, or you're being purposefully dense.[/quote]
Lets go back a post
Of course, and so do I. But the simple fact is that the components (transistors in particular) for DFI motherboards are specially manufactured in Japan and to a high standard
One of your aurgments was that Japanese products were produced to a higher standard than Chinese products. I have said in effect twice now prove it and the best you have presented is that labor costs are lower.
Face it, your buying into hype.

Why do you think that many companies now outsource their call-centres to India? Or are you completely fucking ignorant of how these people work? Hint: It's because Indian labour is fucking cheap. Try accusing me of being racist/nationalist again, I dare you.

I never made that comment except refering to them as Red Chinese(Chinaman) If you want to accept that as racist by all means, go nuts. It was not intended as such. I still ask can you even however to quote me what the acutal standards are.
Three times now you said Chinese products are cheaper without providing an reasons why besides cheap labor and calling it "cheap shit"

You've made a claim that Japanese products are produced to a higher standard I've called bullshit and you've not backed up your claim except to claim lower labor costs.

I
Well, like I said... Get to work doing so and your almost-fanwhorish bullshit will have the slightest bit of merit.

Fanwhorish? I've called the products are near identicaly preforming... Complineted DFI as putting out an excellent product several times... I guess if thats your definition of fan-whoring then color me a whore.

Mr Bean wrote:When chosing between two company's that have (near) identical preforming products, with near identical features and pricepoint which do you chose?

Ok, getting very bored with you now and after reading your post I've decided this will be the last one I waste my time responding to. The reason? Because you're saying the same dim-witted crap and I'm just going to be repeating myself.

As I've said, but it won't get into your thick skull... They aren't identically performing. It's not my fault you don't have a fucking clue what you're taking about, but the DFI LANparty series outperform Asus boards in benchmarks and stress-tests. Get that into your thick skull and quit begging the question.

Of course, and so do I. But the simple fact is that the components (transistors in particular) for DFI motherboards are specially manufactured in Japan and to a high standard

One of your aurgments was that Japanese products were produced to a higher standard than Chinese products. I have said in effect twice now prove it and the best you have presented is that labor costs are lower.
Face it, your buying into hype.

No, you face it, you're dense as fuck. Asus chooses to import their components from China, particularly from cheap suppliers who make sub-par components, to cut costs. DFI chooses to import their components from Japan, particularly from suppliers who meet their high standards requirements.

Also, see the part I bolded... It's not simply the fact they're made in Japan, like your fucking out-right strawman argument makes out. It's that they're made in Japan and to a high standard.

If you're too dense to understand this, get the fuck out of my face and quit wasting my time.

You've made a claim that Japanese products are produced to a higher standard I've called bullshit and you've not backed up your claim except to claim lower labor costs.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought that "common knowledge" was something you might actually posess. You didn't know that many companies choose cheap suppliers, or outsource to companies with cheap labour? Then I'm sorry, but for someone who's been in the business for as long as you say you have, you sure know absolutely fuck all.

Fanwhorish? I've called the products are near identicaly preforming... Complineted DFI as putting out an excellent product several times... I guess if thats your definition of fan-whoring then color me a whore.

Naw, I choose to call it fan-whoring when someone acts purposefully dense, uses straw men, and even brings up nationalist/racist cards to get their point across.

The simple fact is that DFI LANparty boards outperform Asus boards. If you can't deal with that, then go sit in the corner and suck on your dummy, because I'm done with you.

Do yourself a favour and go bench/stress some, see for yourself if you don't believe me. Jackass.

Edit: Fixed a quote and responded accordingly.

Just bought a K7S41 and put in about a 2500 AMD. Upgrading is a blast for me, what with all the hardware conflicts and such.