StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Posted: **2005-08-28 01:33pm**

The hell's wrong with Lincoln?

Posted: **2005-08-28 01:34pm**

Lincoln, of course. Defender of the Republic, Liberator of the Slaves, Suppressor of Rebellion.

Posted: **2005-08-28 03:36pm**

Washington, hands down, no contest. Lincoln's pretty high up the list, but nobody holds a candle to the man who humbled the British Empire, turned down a kingship, and made the office of the President as an independent executive possible.

Posted: **2005-08-28 03:37pm**

HemlockGrey wrote:The hell's wrong with Lincoln?

He increased the power of the Presidency and put the states in their places. Some consider this a bad thing. *Shrug*

Posted: **2005-08-28 06:19pm**

Who's my favorite president (as opposed to the best one)? Teddy Roosevelt. WHAT A BADASS! He was about a million times cooler than ANY other US president, before or since.

Posted: **2005-08-28 06:22pm**

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:William Henry Harrison. Can't think of one bad thing he did in office.

Can't think of one thing he did either, who the fuck is he?

Posted: **2005-08-28 06:25pm**

Lord Pounder wrote:
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:William Henry Harrison. Can't think of one bad thing he did in office.
Can't think of one thing he did either, who the fuck is he?

He literally didn't do anything in office. He died precisely one month after ascending to office, and was bed-ridden for virtually all of that time with a cold that developed into the fatal case of pneumonia.

Posted: **2005-08-28 06:26pm**

Lord Pounder wrote:
Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:William Henry Harrison. Can't think of one bad thing he did in office.
Can't think of one thing he did either, who the fuck is he?

He's the one who caught a cold and died after a month in office.

Posted: **2005-08-28 06:27pm**

Two presidents:

Woodrow Wilson: for declaring war on Germany and sending soldiers to help out the Allied Troops during WWI

Franklin D. Roosevelt: For doing pretty much the same thing during WWII...

Posted: **2005-08-28 06:41pm**

Lord Pounder wrote:Can't think of one thing he did either, who the fuck is he?

He's the dude who died in thirty days, so sayith the lyrics on the first page.

Long story short: he was a key figure in the formation of Indiana and Ohio. Served a stint as a governer of Indiana Territory, then fought in several battles of the War of 1812 and led his troops to a number of victories, including the battle of the Thames River and the taking of Detroit. Ran for President under the Whigs, got elected, and croaked a month later.

As for me, it's a tie between ol' Slick Willy and FDR, but Franklin holds a special sort of place in my mind. I mean, he comes into power when the country is an absolute mess, and establishes a umber of programs and projects to help us rise from the depression; when war's a'brewin', he gets the economy moving even further while maintaining neutrality through a cleved loophole in logic by "leasing" arms to the British when Hitler's ramping things up; and even when his own health begins to fail, when he's getting hamered left and right from illness and weakness, he refuses to throw in the toweland maintains an elaborate illusion to keep the morale of the people up, despite the torture it places on him. There's just little thaat can top that, in my mind.

Posted: **2005-08-28 07:01pm**

Andrew Jackson, just for his badassness

He was a no nonsense type of guy...

Posted: **2005-08-28 07:10pm**

On the Harrison issue... I've heard that something that might have contributed to the pneumonia he died from. Supposedly he gave a very long inauguration speech during inclement weather. Any truth to this, or is it a myth?

Posted: **2005-08-28 07:32pm**

felineki wrote:On the Harrison issue... I've heard that something that might have contributed to the pneumonia he died from. Supposedly he gave a very long inauguration speech during inclement weather. Any truth to this, or is it a myth?

It is true, and happened about when he caught his cold. On a sidenote, the address was penned (at least in part) by Daniel Webster of lexcography fame.

Posted: **2005-08-28 07:35pm**

Master of Ossus wrote:
felineki wrote:On the Harrison issue... I've heard that something that might have contributed to the pneumonia he died from. Supposedly he gave a very long inauguration speech during inclement weather. Any truth to this, or is it a myth?
It is true, and happened about when he caught his cold. On a sidenote, the address was penned (at least in part) by Daniel Webster of lexcography fame.

Erm... Noah Webster was the lexicographer. Daniel Webster was the statesman.

Posted: **2005-08-28 07:36pm**

Rogue 9 wrote:Erm... Noah Webster was the lexicographer. Daniel Webster was the statesman.

Oh, that's right. My bad.

Posted: **2005-08-28 09:07pm**

tumbletom wrote:Andrew Jackson, just for his badassness

He was a no nonsense type of guy...

He was also a racist asshole (even moreso than most people those days were), who advanced disastrous economic policies and introduced some of the more devisive practices (the spoils system) we have been stuck with ever since into our political system.

Posted: **2005-08-28 10:30pm**

Dakarne wrote: Woodrow Wilson: for declaring war on Germany and sending soldiers to help out the Allied Troops during WWI

Woodrow Wilson was a racist shitbag who resegregated the White House after a half-century of White House integration started by Abraham Lincoln.

Furthermore, Wilson sent the U.S. military on more fucking foreign adventures than George W. Bush could ever dream of. He ordered an invasion of Russia to support the government against the Communist revolution. He ordered an invasion of Haiti, and when Haiti refused to declare war on Germany during WW1, Wilson dissolved the Haitian government and replaced it with a puppet government that would declare war on Germany. There was more than that as well.

Without an American entry into WW1, the war could have potentially simply ground to a halt and forced an equitable armistice for all the nations involved. Instead, our support guaranteed a crushing defeat for Germany, and gave the Allied nations the upper hand they needed to grind the Germans into the ground, instilling the resentment which would later be exploited by Adolf Hitler to launch WW2.

Wilson is quite probably one of the worst presidents we have ever had.

Posted: **2005-08-28 10:36pm**

Woodrow Wilson: for declaring war on Germany and sending soldiers to help out the Allied Troops during WWI

Are you kidding? Wilson was one of the worst Presidents ever. The United States should never have been involved in the First World War. You could argue that the world was worse off for our intervention because it allowed the Allies a more decisive victory over Germany. They would have won anyway. Wilson cost the country more dead than in Vietnam for less benefit. And then he frittered away any influence the US could have on the peace process with the league of nations, rather than doing the right thing and moderating the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. And that's not even mentioning his disgusting racial policies.

Posted: **2005-08-28 11:06pm**

Washington, then Lincoln.

Posted: **2005-08-28 11:22pm**

tumbletom wrote:Andrew Jackson, just for his badassness

He was a no nonsense type of guy...

Uh, yeah, when it came to sending thousands of people to walk the Trail of Tears and starting up the Jim Crow laws he was really a no nonsense fella'. Yeah.

What a trooper.

Posted: **2005-08-28 11:28pm**

Toss up: Washington or TR.

Without the strength of Washingtons character the US would not have enjoyed the transition from a semi-popular rebellion to a confederacy of local colonies to a modern nation-state with more or less just and democratic government.

TR presided over great expansions in the American economy and standard of living. He helped balance the international order. And had sensible domestic policies. He wasn't JUST a badass, but a responsible leader who helped keep progress moving ... while still being a badass.

As far as Wilson. The only point of his first term was that he "kept us out of war" and the only point of his second was that he "beat the Kaiser" (literally the Democratic campaign slogans had precious little else to tout).

Staying out entirely or entering early were BOTH superior courses of action. Going in early hastens the invetibility of German defeat, increases the Entente strangehold on the seas, and makes it more likely for a negotiated peace to be possible (the Germans knowing they have no hope of victory and the French/Russian demands being moderated by the US). Staying out let's the Europeans sort it out without the false hopes raised by his points and either more lenient terms will be given Germany - or Wilson won't be there to prevent sufficiently harsh terms to make WWII unlikely. Wilson took a muddled road the combined the worst of various options - come in, but not until after millions of lives were thrown away. Hold out humanitarian peace terms, but be unable to bring them to pass.

FDR's domestic policies were not that spectacular. He underfunded social security, created monopolies, and burnt money on make-work which at best bought time and did little to repair race relations. His war conduct rescues him from mediocrity, but doesn't elevate him to the pinnacle.

Lincoln, rightly or wrongly, opted for a martial solution to intractable domestic problems - resulting in the largest American bloodbath in history. The discretions he took during the exigencies of war do not make him a bad president, but do remove him from the top spot.

Posted: **2005-08-28 11:51pm**

Lincoln, rightly or wrongly, opted for a martial solution to intractable domestic problems -

What are you talking about? Lincoln didn't start the war, the rebels started the war when they seized federal arsenals and fired on Fort Sumter.

Posted: **2005-08-29 11:01am**

George W. Bush.

Kidding.

I think the following sums up my feelings about Washington:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newburgh_conspiracy

The Newburgh Conspiracy was a plot hatched in 1783 near the end of the American Revolutionary War led by officers Robert Morris and Alexander Hamilton of the Continental Army to oust Congress in a coup and set up a military dictatorship. The two men wanted a tax instituted to help pay their wages. The plan showed that the Articles of Confederation were unstable and that American citizens were unhappy with it. Morris and Hamilton may have only created the plan as a threat, not as an actual revolt.

The winter of 1783 had seen the end of hostilities between the young nation and Britain, but a formal peace treaty had not yet been signed. The Continental Army was camped at Newburgh, New York. The British still occupied New York City, some 60 miles to the south, and any hint that there was turmoil in the Continental Army might have caused the British to use the opportunity to attack and re-establish control over their former colonies.

When General George Washington found out about the conspiracy, he called a meeting of his officers on March 15, 1783 that Major General Horatio Gates was supposed to chair. This meeting was held in the "New Building", a 40 by 70 foot building at the camp. After Gates opened the meeting, Washington entered the building to everyone's surprise. He asked to speak to the officers, and the stunned Gates relinquished the floor. Washington could tell by the faces of his officers, who hadn't been paid for quite some time, were quite angry and did not show the respect or deference that they had in the past toward Washington.

Washington then gave a short speech to his officers about the precarious finances of the nation, and looked up and saw he had made very little impact on their attitude. He then took a letter from his pocket from a member of Congress to read to the officers. Instead of reading it immediately, he gazed upon it and fumbled with it without speaking. The men wondered, what was wrong? Why the delay? He then took a pair of reading glasses from his pocket, which few of the men had seen him wear. He then said: "Gentlemen, you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have not only grown gray but almost blind in the service of my country." This caused most of the men to realize that Washington, too, had sacrificed a great deal, more than most of them, for the cause. These, of course, were his fellow officers, most having worked closely with him for several years. Many of those present were moved to tears, and with this (some say theatrical) act, the conspiracy collapsed as he read the letter. He then left the room and General Henry Knox and others offered resolutions reaffirming their loyalty, which were accepted by the group.

He ended a possible coup attempt with one sentence. There's also the fact that if he wanted to, he could have become King George of America. He also set the unofficial two term limit.

Edit: Oh and Einy, Washington smoked weed.

Posted: **2005-08-29 11:04am**

HemlockGrey wrote:
Lincoln, rightly or wrongly, opted for a martial solution to intractable domestic problems -
What are you talking about? Lincoln didn't start the war, the rebels started the war when they seized federal arsenals and fired on Fort Sumter.

Not to mention that it was mostly the fault of his predecessor, Buchanan, who had the last chance to take a stand and prevent the war from happening, but didn't. He saw that a conflict was quickly coming and dumped it on the lap of the new guy.

Posted: **2005-08-29 11:56am**

HemlockGrey wrote:What are you talking about? Lincoln didn't start the war, the rebels started the war when they seized federal arsenals and fired on Fort Sumter.

You're right. Still don't like him though -- it's just in my Southern blood. Just as when I hear "The Battle Hymn of the Republic," I'm somewhat revolted.

Frankly though, had he survived he would have treated the defeated South much better than it actually was.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Favorite American President?