StarDestroyer.Net BBS

1944 A German four engine bomber flies for 26 hrs total and comes to within 12 miles of New York before turning back to France....What MK may be talking about is a Horton style flying wng bomber....the Horton brothers independent of Lockheed came up with a flying wing design and discovered something in the trials...it was very hard to spoit on radar watch History chanel speical Luftwaffe 1946 sometime it is scarry

It was a 1,300 km range heavy bomber that I flew from France to the Azores,
and then to Bermuda, where the Bomb was loaded, and the 1,300 km range
was enough to reach any point on the east coast.

The game abstracts a lot of stuff and I think there is a bug in the game
right now that gives me infinite nukes

Anyway,



The Campaign of 1943 occured from January to June of the same year
and ended up with the wehrmacht in control of most of european
Russia.....

The next year - 1944, on June 6, 1944, the Americans invaded occupied
Europe, not in france, but in LITHUANIA

That was at the same time Operation SEALION was occurring.



Once I had control over the British Isles, I immediately installed a puppet
state



The game is a bit buggy in it's current state, and it needs to be fixed, but
unlike certain other games, such as SUPERPOWER, it's still FUN in it's
buggy state.

(By Bugs, I mean that divisions cost too much to build - you should be
capable of building 200 division armies easily as Germany in a few
years)

MKSheppard wrote:09:00 AM, September 11th, 1946.......

A lone Heinkel bomber flies high above New York City, and from it's
bomb bay drops a fat cylindrical device......several minutes later,
the light of a thousand suns erupts over NYC......

Look up in sky.....

is it a bird.....

is it a plane.....

no.....IT'S SUPERMAN

Take that you bomber boys, try to nuke my city will you.

(Superman grabs the Heinkel bomber and flies it over Berlin and drops it on Hitlers head.)
HA HA

So, the game basically fucked accuracy in order to change WWII from a foregone conclusion into a real contest.

Pablo Sanchez wrote:So, the game basically fucked accuracy in order to change WWII from a foregone conclusion into a real contest.

Actually, No. Play as the USSR and set up a stalinist paradise. I've
already conquered Hungary, Romania, Poland, and the Baltic states
in 1937

What the game does is it gives you a limited amount of Industrial
Capacity (IC) points. You have to use those to feed your population,
supply your armies, conduct research, or build/refit units.

The reason the germans did so good in my game was because
I kept on doing RESEARCH after defeating france in 1940. IIRC, hitler
cancelled all research after that point.....

You have to make a choice between researching new technologies or
cranking out armored divisions - you can't do both......

MKSheppard wrote:

Pablo Sanchez wrote:So, the game basically fucked accuracy in order to change WWII from a foregone conclusion into a real contest.

Actually, No. Play as the USSR and set up a stalinist paradise. I've
already conquered Hungary, Romania, Poland, and the Baltic states
in 1937

What the game does is it gives you a limited amount of Industrial
Capacity (IC) points. You have to use those to feed your population,
supply your armies, conduct research, or build/refit units.

The reason the germans did so good in my game was because
I kept on doing RESEARCH after defeating france in 1940. IIRC, hitler
cancelled all research after that point.....

You have to make a choice between researching new technologies or
cranking out armored divisions - you can't do both......

Make good tanks, crank them out by the millions, then resarch better tanks and start the enxt war.

Pablo Sanchez wrote:So, the game basically fucked accuracy in order to change WWII from a foregone conclusion into a real contest.

From someone on the Hearts of Iron Forum:

For your information, in my current game. Most of the European countries have ceased to exsist cause of the Red Bear. The Axis did very well in the beginning, having about 50% of russia. But in -44 russia counter attacked and have now annexed Germany + all all eastern and south east countries.

I thought the Axis would take all of russia and I was very suprised to see that Russia counter attacked. I was busy in the Pacific at that time (playing as Australia)

Also, the 1936 game gives Russia 50 Divisions.....when in reality:
the USSR had up to 100 infantry (not counting the rest) divisions.

There's gonna be a big patch by christmas.....that will hopefully fix
all the realism issues...

<Medieval>

There is no Germany. There is no Russia, no England, no France.

Only Rome, stretching as far as the eye can see...

</Medieval>

Cyril wrote:<Medieval>

There is no Germany. There is no Russia, no England, no France.

Only Rome, stretching as far as the eye can see...

</Medieval>

*Tanks blow up armored formations and trrorize the civilians*

No, boyo, it's Sheppardland now.

The Dark wrote:

Stravo wrote:Actually, thanks to Shep, I went out and bought the game and its really fun, I've overurn Poland and brought Romania, Hungary, Estonia, Lithuania and Portugal into the Axis. The English and France are quaking in their boots as my divisions form up. But I have a special surprise for them....Very soon nukes will bloom over London and the Third Reich will SWEEP through Europe...bwahahhahah!!!

Ahem...sorry. Its easy to get caught up in this.

What...game...is...it?

Could someone please answer this question.

BTW Shep FUCK YOU unless.....it's only the Bronx and Manhatten .

Cyaround,
Jason

Evil Sadistic Bastard wrote:

Cyril wrote:<Medieval>

There is no Germany. There is no Russia, no England, no France.

Only Rome, stretching as far as the eye can see...

</Medieval>

*Tanks blow up armored formations and trrorize the civilians*

No, boyo, it's Sheppardland now.

Roman empire by 1945? *three ESB class battleships appear over tanks* They're dead... verryyy dead.

MKSheppard wrote:

Pablo Sanchez wrote:So, the game basically fucked accuracy in order to change WWII from a foregone conclusion into a real contest.

Actually, No. Play as the USSR and set up a stalinist paradise. I've
already conquered Hungary, Romania, Poland, and the Baltic states
in 1937

What the game does is it gives you a limited amount of Industrial
Capacity (IC) points. You have to use those to feed your population,
supply your armies, conduct research, or build/refit units.

The reason the germans did so good in my game was because
I kept on doing RESEARCH after defeating france in 1940. IIRC, hitler
cancelled all research after that point.....

You have to make a choice between researching new technologies or
cranking out armored divisions - you can't do both......

No, everything including this you've indicated shows crap for accuracy in every respect.

I once had the allies declare war on me for my forced
annexation of Czechslovakia in 1938!

Now that was a game I don't want to remember...

Sea Skimmer wrote: No, everything including this you've indicated shows crap for accuracy in every respect.

How so? The German Reich with all the resources of Continental Europe
at it's whim was pretty damn powerful.

The problem is Hitler kept launching them on new crusades or conquests
without allowing the armed forces to stabilize.....entire divisions were
equipped with French Renault trucks and British trucks, while the same
went for Panzer divisions and Czech tanks....

In the game, the USA is the most powerful nation, with the biggest
industrial base. Germany OTOH, needs to annex and conquer
to win.....Czechslovakia is one of the vital annexations you need
to do - to get the Skoda works.....

There's a big debate on the paradox forums over IC's gained through
conquest:

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum ... ight=Skoda

*************

The Renault works in france produced 1000+ vehicles a month
for 4 years till the allies flattened it.

Skoda built 2,500 hetzers alone in 44-45.

******

As has been noted Germany got significant military equipment production from France and Czechoslovakia. Also not to be underestimated is the huge financial plunder they got from most Western European occupied countries. France was practically drained dry by Nazi control of its economy, far more than was ever gained by occupying the Eastern countries. Hence the terrible condition of the French economy immediately after the war; people were actually starving.

***********

But they did receive an economic benefit from these countries, in particular with the Soviet Union during the conflict; the others, for the most part after the conflict had been resolved... though economic exploitation teams went right to work in the newly occupied areas of France.

Thousands of industries were back on line in the SU by early '43- actually the number is 5,680, employing 589,369 workers- including 784 firms in mining; 843 in Iron and metals; 452 in Chemicals; 446 in Energy; and 52 in the Defense sector.

The final report of the Eastern Economics staff states that a 'net return' of 7.5 billion Reichsmarks was witnessed from the occupation (the Soviets claim even higher); and the value of the unpaid labor was estimated at 30 billion Reichsmarks alone. More than 5 million tons of raw materials were shipped back to the Reich from the Soviet Union along with 250,000 railroad cars of 'evacuated' goods, during '43-'44 alone.

Don't forget as well that the occupation not only fed, provisioned the Wehrmacht in almost its entirety, it was a major food provider of the Greater Reich as well. I.e. 760 million eggs to the Wehrmacht, while only 118 million went back to the Reich; this type of range extends all across the board with the exception of Machine oils.

Not everything made it during the great move to the Urals- many an intact plant was captured; while others were rebuilt. A brand new Mortar plant was captured in '41; Krupp built, rebuilt, restarted Munitions plants in the Ukraine- these may have been part of the special "Ivan Program" mandated by Hitler to construct Munitions plants throughout the SU. Kontinentale Ol and the Reichswerke Hermann Goering were involved in many industries in the Soviet Union as well; most other companies were a bit more sceptical about getting involved- some preferring to just cart the plant back to the Reich, than restart it in place.

*************

Let's see: the Reichsbahn benefited to a great degree from incorporating these areas, and incorporating the rolling stock; France was a major source of the Bauxite that German industry turned into Aluminum; French industries were involved to a very high degree in providing aircraft, parts, chemicals, consumer goods, weapons, munitions, steel and iron ore (just this area alone was the xmas present of all presents), various refined petroleum products, light metals, trucks, engines, labor, ad infinitum. The same could be said of Belgium- primarily chem, coal, steel, and weapons/munitions; the Netherlands- aircraft; weapons, food, electronics, radar parts, parts of other war related applications, electrical generation, and unimpeded river/canal borne traffic and trade, etc.

Your comments about Poland are interesting as well- I.G. Farben, Konti Ol, Daimler Benz, Krupp, and hundreds of munitions plants scattered throughout Poland were crucial to the Reich war machine, and food needs. Just in the Auschwitz, Monowitz, Katowitz area alone there were Synthetic fuel, Rubber/Buna, chemical, aluminum, coal mines, steel, iron, oil refineries, and dozens of Munitions and weapon producing plants, plus much more. Major industrial and war related industries could be found in Warsaw, Posen, and other cities... Daimler Benz built DB engines in Reichshof... Steyr-Daimler- Puch had armaments factories in Warsaw; the Wespe was built in Poland iirc... essentially the entire machine plant of Poland was captured intact and utilized to some degree or other... though a few of the Chemical plants were either stripped down, or shut down entirely by I.G. Farben due to their inefficiencies or low productive levels.

Same in Bohmen-Mahren/CZ- the Skoda works, BM, and hundreds of other firms worked till the very end, for the most part untouched by bombing till the Soviets/Americans arrived at the door step. Armor, heavy weapons, a/c of all types, and other needed goods and raw materials coming out of the former CZ were crucial to the Reich- and due to labor issues in the Reich proper, the quality of goods coming out of this area were of first rate quality till the very end- be they Hetzer's or Bf109-G10's, etc. In fact, the last productive area for the Reich, after the Ruhr, Silesia, etc., had either fallen or ceased to be of any further economic use, was Marisch-Ostrau, producing weapons, finished goods, Oil, raw materials till the last day of the war.

**************

Every occupied nation in europe had it heavy indusry coopted by the germans to server their war effort. In fact this is what allowed germany not to go into a "war time economy for so long. Speer was horrified to see how many german factories where still building civilian products when they should have been gearing up to produce war time goods. The western nations made huge contributions to the war effort they produced non of the "glamour" items of war like Tanks, fighters or the like but ship yards in france where converted to build U-boats. Factories in Holand build engine parts. Belguim supplied lots of energy. All this was IC. The fact is everything from enamle cooking pots (for the infantry) to tank barrels where built in the occupied territories.

I'm sorry but this is just a historical reality. There was forced concription into the factories ( I'm not talking concetration camps). They would concript people to work in the factories to help the war effort my grrlfriend's gradfather was in a dutch factory working for the germans. He got the job because he was healthy and he was semiskilled at the time. He was paid x amount (a very low wage) and he wasnt allowed to say no either. He was lucky that his friend was a doctor and was able to leave after a minor accident the doctor just said he was unable to work. So he was replaced by another dutch worker who had little choice in the manner.

Its a reality of the war that the german where VERY effeicent at using occupied factories for their war effort.

********

y that itself lost substantial territory/population/etc.?



Forgive me if someone has already said this. A key point in this topic that you seem to be missing is, in WW2, German production levels never even reached those of WW1. Two of the key reasons why this never happened are:

1. Hitler didn't like women working in industry, and thought their deployment would cause unrest at home.

2. Germany didn't settle on a system of standardized parts until 1942 when Speer took control of industry.

Note that in 1942, production spiked dramatically upward with Speers reforms. In addition, he shifted the vast majority of war production to German companies, leaving consumer goods, and their profits to other areas under German control. This strategy was extremely effective. Historically, production was even scaled back after the victory in France.

What I'd really like is a fan-made The Operational Art of War mod that
completely rebuilds the engine to make it tailor made for showing WWII
on a grand scale......but that won't happen as we won't get the source code
any time soon.......

Hey Shep, what game are you talking about here, and what's it about? I've been sort of thinking lately of getting into some WWII games. Besides Wolfenstein.

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:Hey Shep, what game are you talking about here, and what's it about? I've been sort of thinking lately of getting into some WWII games. Besides Wolfenstein.

HEARTS OF IRON. But I'd wait until around christmas to see if they
release a patch to fix a lot of issues, like the unlimited nuke bug

LoL! Unlimited Nuke eh? I hope the Canadians are fast runners.

DG_Cal_Wright wrote:LoL! Unlimited Nuke eh? I hope the Canadians are fast runners.

Just wait till he does it as the Evil Kanadian Empire and conquers the United States of America.

Ted wrote: Just wait till he does it as the Evil Kanadian Empire and conquers the United States of America.

KKKanadian Empire, Ted. KKKanadian.

And I'll have to see if Canada/US are hardcoded to always be friendly....

Shep, it sounds like with Canada and a couple years, you could capture 75% of America in two days, 10% on the verge of falling and 15% being bombed to hell.


Or play as Andorra and take from the beaches of Normandy to the gates of Berlin in 3 weeks and have thermonuclear warheads raining on Stanlingrad and Moscow.

MKSheppard wrote:

Ted wrote: Just wait till he does it as the Evil Kanadian Empire and conquers the United States of America.

KKKanadian Empire, Ted. KKKanadian.

And I'll have to see if Canada/US are hardcoded to always be friendly....

Hehehe, if not commence Operation Red then onto Britain. And then Mexico.

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Shep, it sounds like with Canada and a couple years, you could capture 75% of America in two days, 10% on the verge of falling and 15% being bombed to hell.


Or play as Andorra and take from the beaches of Normandy to the gates of Berlin in 3 weeks and have thermonuclear warheads raining on Stanlingrad and Moscow.

You know if Canada withheld some divisions and they invaded in historical 1944 it would be awhile before they were halted.

Captain Lennox wrote:

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Shep, it sounds like with Canada and a couple years, you could capture 75% of America in two days, 10% on the verge of falling and 15% being bombed to hell.


Or play as Andorra and take from the beaches of Normandy to the gates of Berlin in 3 weeks and have thermonuclear warheads raining on Stanlingrad and Moscow.

You know if Canada withheld some divisions and they invaded in historical 1944 it would be awhile before they were halted.

The Canadian troops in WWII were the best of all.

The II Canada Corps fought the SS Panzer Leidstandar Adolf Hitler twice, first nearly destroying it in Normandy, then in the Scheldt campaign, defeated it and the German Para divisions. And with our massed arty, we could break up any German counter-attack.

EDIT: And during the attack across the Rhine, the American 9th Army was trapped behind the flooded Rhineland, the Germans were able to re-inforce the units defending against the Canadians with 19 additional Infantry Divisions and 6 Panzer Divisions, half of which were SS Divisions.

Ted wrote:

Captain Lennox wrote:

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:Shep, it sounds like with Canada and a couple years, you could capture 75% of America in two days, 10% on the verge of falling and 15% being bombed to hell.


Or play as Andorra and take from the beaches of Normandy to the gates of Berlin in 3 weeks and have thermonuclear warheads raining on Stanlingrad and Moscow.

You know if Canada withheld some divisions and they invaded in historical 1944 it would be awhile before they were halted.

The Canadian troops in WWII were the best of all.

The II Canada Corps fought the SS Panzer Leidstandar Adolf Hitler twice, first nearly destroying it in Normandy, then in the Scheldt campaign, defeated it and the German Para divisions. And with our massed arty, we could break up any German counter-attack.

Canadian troops where no better then any other all-volunteer force.