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I believe Picard cited the ability of his crew to show self-restraint and not abuse their comm-panel privileges. While that may be so, it makes no sense for civilians to have such access, let alone people like Offenhouse. This leaves aside the often-mentioned foolishness of merely having civilians, especially kids, aboard ship. There's one early episode where Riker had to chase some children out of the conference room as he and Picard went in for a meeting. If the conference room is on the same deck as the bridge, civilians should not be able to take the turbolift up there unaccompanied.

Another shining example of how bad Starfleet's security is, is in the episode Brothers, in which Data manages to hijack the Enterprise by impersonating Picard's voice. The computer should have been able to recognize that Picard's voice was coming out of Data, and that Picard was elsewhere on the ship. Even if he was off the ship, it should have known that and that Data was impersonating him. If nothing else, it should have been set to demand Picard's password, fingerprints, retinal scan, or something before carrying out the order. Even if Data tried to take the ship somewhere using his own authority, it should have notified Picard and Riker, allowing them the chance to countermand him. Also, the computer should be set to ignore any use of any biometrics by an unconscious person; I call it the Simon Phoenix defense.

The heck is the Simon Phoenix defense?

And as far as I know (admittedly, Wikipedia), the port door leads out into another corridor.

Edward Yee wrote:The heck is the Simon Phoenix defense?

Simon Phoenix was a character in Demolition Man. In one scene he got past a retinal scanner by removing a guard's eye and sticking it in front of the scanner. Also, everyone in that movie had ID chips implanted in their hands, which is also how they bought things (since they no longer used physical currency.) It was speculated by some of the characters that, in order to get money, Phoenix would have to chop someone's hand off.

brianeyci wrote:It's worth noting that we get a view of the spacedock manual controls, and it was unmanned. So Kirk or somebody else probably fucked around with the duty roster, so nobody was there to manually shut down Scotty's hacking efforts.

Brian

During Uhura's report, we find out it is 2200. Even though it's no excuse, they could be on reduced manpower during night. The guy opening the door may have also had other duties to attend to. Doing it at night would reduce most other complications too.

1123581321 wrote:

brianeyci wrote:It's worth noting that we get a view of the spacedock manual controls, and it was unmanned. So Kirk or somebody else probably fucked around with the duty roster, so nobody was there to manually shut down Scotty's hacking efforts.

Brian

During Uhura's report, we find out it is 2200. Even though it's no excuse, they could be on reduced manpower during night. The guy opening the door may have also had other duties to attend to. Doing it at night would reduce most other complications too.

Also you think an Admiral would be able send him off on a errend or something.

All The TNG security probleam are with people who should have little of no access. I work in IT and secirity like this would be tolerated 1 min before everyone in my dept would get fired

All The TNG security probleam are with people who should have little of no access. I work in IT and secirity like this would be tolerated 1 min before everyone in my dept would get fired

No unescorted access to civilain personel should eb allowed. I think with ST tech level no unauthorized persons should even be able to get close to the shuttle bay let alone a shuttle. That however would ruin the story ST writers never let common sense get in the way of a story.

jawbertsc wrote:

All The TNG security probleam are with people who should have little of no access. I work in IT and secirity like this would be tolerated 1 min before everyone in my dept would get fired

No unescorted access to civilain personel should eb allowed. I think with ST tech level no unauthorized persons should even be able to get close to the shuttle bay let alone a shuttle. That however would ruin the story ST writers never let common sense get in the way of a story.

For TNG they appear to authenticate everything with voice verification. So perhaps the boy imitated his dad good enough to fool the computer.

In TOS a Comodore flies off with a shuttle in the episode The Doomsday Machine but its not as bad as a teenage boy doing it since he is a Comodore and perhaps the door's guard let him in not aware that his command has been revoked.

Isolder74 wrote:In TOS a Comodore flies off with a shuttle in the episode The Doomsday Machine but its not as bad as a teenage boy doing it since he is a Comodore and perhaps the door's guard let him in not aware that his command has been revoked.

Or he beat them up like he did to the guard escorting him to sickbay.

More realistically, did he take that guy's phaser? If so that would have made stealing a shuttle a lot easier.

For TNG they appear to authenticate everything with voice verification. So perhaps the boy imitated his dad good enough to fool the computer.

That is some slipshod programming if it's true. No matter how good an impersonation you do of someone else's voice, unless you're Data, it should read as different to the computer. Also, it should know that the voice is not coming from where his dad actually is, so it's fake. Also also, why would a civilian know a Starfleet officer's password? If you thought identity theft was bad now, imagine knowing that anyone who can do an sufficiently good version of your voice can trick a computer into thinking he's you.

The Episode Brothers bothers me for that reason. Data is playing Picard but Picard is not present at that location. Why does the computer assume that it is Picard?

Can't it check combadges before doing a command?

Maybe he secretly swapped comm badges? Probably implausible if we get the rest of the data (no pun intended). If he had no on-screen opportunities, maybe he did it off-camera.

drachefly wrote:Maybe he secretly swapped comm badges? Probably implausible if we get the rest of the data (no pun intended). If he had no on-screen opportunities, maybe he did it off-camera.

That's possible but what bothers me is it does not ask for a password until after Data has messed with the computer. So the password here must be Picard's voice.

As far as biometrics go this is pretty bad. A thumb scanner would have stopped this. A panel on the shuttle bay door with a hand scanner would have stopped that boy from flying off with a shutle as well.

Things seem to go downhill. In the TOS movies, we see Kirk using a retina scanner and requiring the Acting Science Officer and Engineer to agree to a self-destruct from the bridge. In TNG, there's a fingerprint thing in engineering in the Enterprise-D, but you only need the First Officer and the Captain. Isn't the idea that the First Officer is supposed to be the Captain's voice to the crew, and therefore is so close to the Captain that he could possibly be biased? Then in Nemesis, I assume we hear Picard attempting to activate the self-destruct on the bridge. I believe we hear the auto-destruct activated from the bridge in TNG too, without the fingerprint scanner, a couple of times (which is inconsistent, but in all fairness for the fingerprint scanner time the Binars had taken control of the bridge).

Although there are certain advantages to an instantaneous self-destruct, I don't think that's a reason why they got rid of the triad from the TOS movies necessary to activate the self-destruct, because let's face it how many times do Starfleet officers regularly go to the big red button when faced with death that requires instantaneous self-destruct?

So we get a pattern. Starfleet assumes that everybody will do their job and not interfere with shipwide communications, as shown in "The Neutral Zone" comments. Starfleet lets auto-destruct be activated from the bridge with only voice but from Engineering requiring a fingerprint scan. They assume the bridge will be the last line of defense, and always secure. This is stupid as we see from TNG "Rascals". Starfleet assumes everybody on a Galaxy class, including civilians and small children, will be well trained or disciplined enough not to use shipwide communications without authorization.

It seems to be a culture of overconfidence that pervades Starfleet, at least until the Dominion War. Maybe not so much overconfidence as a false sense of security. Maybe since Kirk, there were really no hackers around or real security threats.

Brian

Isolder74 wrote:

1123581321 wrote:

brianeyci wrote:It's worth noting that we get a view of the spacedock manual controls, and it was unmanned.
Brian

During Uhura's report, we find out it is 2200. Even though it's no excuse, they could be on reduced manpower during night.

Also you think an Admiral would be able send him off on a errend or something.

Why? During my time as Military Police in the Finnish Army there was a clear chain of command whenever I was on duty. Only a few people could give me orders while I was guarding something, and I knew them all personally. My immediate group leader, the leader of the guard detail, the garrison commandant and the garrison commander. Any visiting high-ups would have to give me orders through my superiors.

If just anyone of higher rank could issue his own orders on how guards do their work the result would be chaos. Not that I would find it unbeliavable in TNG, where everyone knows his place. An Admiral wouldn't disturb me unless it was important!

Isn't the idea that the First Officer is supposed to be the Captain's voice to the crew, and therefore is so close to the Captain that he could possibly be biased?

No, that's the CMC. Idealy the XO is the enforcer.

However, it always works out that they are all 3 gunning for promotion so hard that they don't care about the crew.

Spetulhu wrote:

Isolder74 wrote:

1123581321 wrote: During Uhura's report, we find out it is 2200. Even though it's no excuse, they could be on reduced manpower during night.

Also you think an Admiral would be able send him off on a errend or something.

Why? During my time as Military Police in the Finnish Army there was a clear chain of command whenever I was on duty. Only a few people could give me orders while I was guarding something, and I knew them all personally. My immediate group leader, the leader of the guard detail, the garrison commandant and the garrison commander. Any visiting high-ups would have to give me orders through my superiors.

If just anyone of higher rank could issue his own orders on how guards do their work the result would be chaos. Not that I would find it unbeliavable in TNG, where everyone knows his place. An Admiral wouldn't disturb me unless it was important!

An Kirk couldn't do the same. A simple errend would not raise much suspicins after all. Kirk did have some pretty high clearences after all and its highly possible that he used them. Even so the reason the post is unmanned is not really important

CDiehl wrote:

Wasn't that guy an ensign like Wesley? Or at least a cadet? Even so, it's still pretty bad, just not as bad.

No. Nobody else Wesley's age on the Enterprise had a commission. He was one of Wesley's classmates who had applied to Starfleet Academy and didn't make it. He was trying to land the shuttle on the planet the Enterprise was orbiting so he could run away. Even if he was Starfleet, it should not have been easy to grab a shuttle.

There are 3 simple things they could have done to prevent this foolishness from happening.

1. Program the door controls to refuse to open for any unauthorized personnel, and to alert security if there's an attempt to enter a restricted area. Same goes for the shuttles. If anyone tries to enter a restricted area, security picks them up and takes them into custody for questioning.

2. Have people in the shuttle bay all the time. There should be guards on the door challenging anyone who tries to enter, as well as technicians looking after the shuttles and pilots on duty to fly them. If anyone tries to go in, they should have ID and written orders to use the shuttles, which the guards will confirm with whoever signed the orders. Nobody should be able to traipse in unnoticed and fly out a shuttle.

3. The doors leading off the ship should be controlled by someone, who informs the bridge whenever they must be opened. Those controls should be able to be overridden from the bridge.

This is the REAL problem with having a klingon as your security chief. Come review time, Riker just marks good or above average, versus having to get disembowled by a dishonored klingon. Or worse dealing with the HR fallout of a klingon chopping up some slacking guards. Worf just doesnt seem to have those soft skills. Besides can you see Riker saying "DAMMIT WORF, PUT DOWN THE PRUNE JUICE AND DO SOME WORK, OR I'LL SHIP YOU OFF TO SOME ORE-PROCESSING DUMP LIKE DS9!!"

Riker actually made a point of standing up to his previous captain in the debut episode... damn the overhyping (I think by him, indirectly by the writers) of this incident.

No, I cannot see Riker making himself that clear. After all, they put up with Lt. Barclay that long.

Note: Reply softened by my own perceived resemblance to Reginald Barclay, minus the hypochrondia, holoaddiction and transporterphobia.

I actually have some ideas for a Star Trek roleplay on how to ramp up (within TNG "plausibility") security...

CDiehl wrote:

For TNG they appear to authenticate everything with voice verification. So perhaps the boy imitated his dad good enough to fool the computer.

That is some slipshod programming if it's true. No matter how good an impersonation you do of someone else's voice, unless you're Data, it should read as different to the computer. Also, it should know that the voice is not coming from where his dad actually is, so it's fake. Also also, why would a civilian know a Starfleet officer's password? If you thought identity theft was bad now, imagine knowing that anyone who can do an sufficiently good version of your voice can trick a computer into thinking he's you.

The sad thing is that the computer of the original Enterprise was able to recognise at once the use of a voice-duplicator to imitate Kirk's voice in "A Taste Of Armageddon". But then evidently, in that era, Starfleet had not yet switched to Microsoft.