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Alyeska wrote:Ok, I see the compliment in that, but I still disagree with the overall assumption. There is a difference between ignorant trekkies who have not seen the whole picture and openly dishonest ones. There is no reason any trek fan would be any more dishonest then any other fan.

As you should. That's how it was meant.

But sadly a lot of the debate Trekkies are either newbs or the willfully ignorant. You're willing to argue and defend a postion rationally and with well thought out arguements. The vast majority of Vs Trekkie are as bad as Wayne and Mike make them out to be.

Alyeska wrote:
Oh piss off. Do you really think I believe ICS? I accept it by the debate rules but I sure as hell don't believe it.

I thought you just didn't like it?

There's no reason not to believe it.

AdmiralKanos wrote:

Alyeska wrote:Ok, I see the compliment in that, but I still disagree with the overall assumption. There is a difference between ignorant trekkies who have not seen the whole picture and openly dishonest ones. There is no reason any trek fan would be any more dishonest then any other fan.

Actually, the side with the weaker position tends to be more dishonest in order to compensate for it (if they were honest, they might realize that having a weak position might mean that, oh, perhaps you're wrong). This is hardly unique to SW vs ST. It is common to virtually all debates on all subjects.

Though MOST of the debaters don't have the access to the level of information we do. They have no reason to be dishonest because they don't know the "Truth" yet.

I would also have to say that much of what you are describing is wishful thinking. They might indeed be decieving, but they are decieving themselves, and as such it is not intentional.

Vympel wrote:

Alyeska wrote:
Oh piss off. Do you really think I believe ICS? I accept it by the debate rules but I sure as hell don't believe it.

I thought you just didn't like it?

There's no reason not to believe it.

Heh, check out the ICS revelation or whatever thread in the ST vs SW forum. Kinda got a big mess going, but it was eventually settled.

I don't like it, I don't believe it, but the source is offical and the numbers were honestly derived so I accept it because that is what the rules of debate demands.

Stormbringer wrote:

Alyeska wrote:Ok, I see the compliment in that, but I still disagree with the overall assumption. There is a difference between ignorant trekkies who have not seen the whole picture and openly dishonest ones. There is no reason any trek fan would be any more dishonest then any other fan.

As you should. That's how it was meant.

But sadly a lot of the debate Trekkies are either newbs or the willfully ignorant. You're willing to argue and defend a postion rationally and with well thought out arguements. The vast majority of Vs Trekkie are as bad as Wayne and Mike make them out to be.

Color me lucky then. I have found ignorant trekkies before and I merely pointed them in the right direction to good information and proper debating techniques. Though that was over a year ago.

Stormbringer wrote:

Alyeska wrote:Ok, I see the compliment in that, but I still disagree with the overall assumption. There is a difference between ignorant trekkies who have not seen the whole picture and openly dishonest ones. There is no reason any trek fan would be any more dishonest then any other fan.

As you should. That's how it was meant.

But sadly a lot of the debate Trekkies are either newbs or the willfully ignorant. You're willing to argue and defend a postion rationally and with well thought out arguements. The vast majority of Vs Trekkie are as bad as Wayne and Mike make them out to be.

And if you won't take our word for it, do a Google Groups search on the following:

"James Grady Ward", "Doug Fortunato", "Elim Garak" , "Anton Polinger" , "Edward Woodward", "Timothy Jones".

And that's just the appetizer. Go to Rob Dalton's FUQ webpage to see more:

http://www.daltonator.net

Alyeska wrote:
Though MOST of the debaters don't have the access to the level of information we do. They have no reason to be dishonest because they don't know the "Truth" yet.

I would also have to say that much of what you are describing is wishful thinking. They might indeed be decieving, but they are decieving themselves, and as such it is not intentional.

Newbs can be reasonably expected not to know and can be educated.

Idiots and trolls like Darkstar and Timmy Jones are just plain dumb. They dishonest and decietful. You can't sweep them under the rug.

Stormbringer wrote:

Alyeska wrote:
Though MOST of the debaters don't have the access to the level of information we do. They have no reason to be dishonest because they don't know the "Truth" yet.

I would also have to say that much of what you are describing is wishful thinking. They might indeed be decieving, but they are decieving themselves, and as such it is not intentional.

Newbs can be reasonably expected not to know and can be educated.

Idiots and trolls like Darkstar and Timmy Jones are just plain dumb. They dishonest and decietful. You can't sweep them under the rug.

No, that is why you marginalized them. One thing that some people forget is that Trolls never really go away. You must always be prepared for them and you have to be on your gaurd. Additionally you must be prepared to educate newbies frequently on the mater.

DarkStar will never be really defeated. It is just a constant effort to keep up with him just to marginalize is work with more truthful looks at his information.

Now, now, I've seen stupid Wars debators, too... the kind that would claim that the Empire can defeat the Culture...

Connor MacLeod wrote:Hey, What about me?

I'm not getting any guns aimed at me

Happy now?

That's it?

Connor MacLeod wrote:That's it?

Oh, you want the FULL treatment. I see.

*sound of 15 turrets aiming at Connor*

Pardon the caption.

What game are those pictures from, anyway?

Grand Theft Auto 3

SPOOFE wrote:Now, now, I've seen stupid Wars debators, too... the kind that would claim that the Empire can defeat the Culture...

/rabid on
Werll they could because they would just turn World Devastators loose everywhere which would laucnh a million ship fleet of Death Stars that would hyper in and destroy every planet, station, and resource point in the culture
/rabid off

I just had to let slip the incitements of war