Singapore to execute Aussie drug smuggler

[Darth Wong]

Let's get something straight: the argument against drug and alcohol prohibition is that the cure is worse than the disease, ie- enforcement is either ineffective or not worth it for various reasons.

However, when people go beyond that and argue that illicit drugs are actually harmless, they're quite frankly sticking their heads in the sand.

[Surlethe]

You answered your own question: selling drugs harms the people buying the drugs.

And they don't qualify as "victims" because they willingly use drugs.

Intentionally providing drugs to addicts doesn't harm the addicts? News to me.

[aerius]

Every civilized country I know of has a foreign office or consular general site which has travel advisories of every single country in the world, their customs, areas to avoid, noteworthy laws and lots of other things like that. For instance the Canadian Consular Affairs site has the following info listed for Singapore.

You are subject to local laws. A serious violation may lead to a jail or death sentence. The sentence will be served in local prisons.

The penalty for drug offences is very strict and can include the death penalty.

Singapore has strict laws and penalties against a variety of actions that may not be illegal or may be considered minor offences in Canada, including jaywalking, spitting, and the importation and sale of chewing gum. Littering is subject to a fine of SG$1,000. Caning is a mandatory sentence for vandalism and may also be imposed for immigration violations and other offences. Shoplifting is considered a serious offence.

Homosexuality is illegal. Convicted offenders may face lengthy jail sentences and fines.

The Australian Consular Affairs site has the following to say about Singapore.

When you are in Singapore, be aware that local laws and penalties, including ones that appear harsh by Australian standards, do apply to you. If you are arrested or jailed, the Australian Government will do what it can to help you but we can't get you out of trouble or out of jail.

Information on what Australian consular officers can and cannot do to help Australians in trouble overseas is available from the Consular Services Charter.

Penalties for drug offences are severe and include the death penalty. Serious crimes, such as murder, may also attract the death penalty. Corporal punishment may be imposed for other offences.

Homosexual acts are illegal in Singapore and penalties include imprisonment.

When it's there in black and white and people ignore it, it's there own fucking fault and they can rot and die for all I care. When your own government tells you that you're fucked if you get caught smuggling in drugs and you do it anyway, you get what you deserve.

[Dendrobius]

It is definitely a VERY WELL KNOWN fact amongst Australians that smuggling drugs into any Asian country means you're taking your life in your own hands. So ignorance cannot be pleaded.

Hasn't it always been the case that if you are visiting another country, you are subject to their laws, not your own? Nobody forced him to go to Singapore, he breached their laws, he's going to get his ass kicked, what does this have to do with our government? Yes, so he's an Australian citizen, boo hoo hoo, too bad, he answers to their authority, because he's over there.

All this whinging about "but I'm Australian/American/tourist and therefore merit different treatment when overseas" makes me sick. Did anybody force them to go to that country? When you go to somebody else's home, do you trash their place and then go "oh, but I don't live here"?

Just execute the guy already and get it over and done with. While we're at it the Indonesians should execute the "Bali Nine" as well since they're up pretty much the same creek. (Google for it for those of you who don't live in Australia if you're interested)

[The Yosemite Bear]

note worthy is a thought about history...

The Pirate William Bonney wasn't hung for his piracy but rather for his attempt to sell a cargo of opium he had robbed off a merchant ship. worse yet it was a botched legal hanging so instead of a quick jerk that's it, he proportably struggled for several minutes whilst a crowd stoned him.

[Danny Bhoy]

Personally, I'm against state-imposed capital punishment (in a warped sort of way, I'd rather the aggrieved party/next of kin in a "victim" crime like rape or first-degree murder have the option of personally killing the convicted felon). Having said that, I'm a firm believer that foreign nationals entering a country should obey the laws of the country or face that country's legal reprisals. I don't agree about pork or booze being banned or women not allowed to drive, but when I'm living in Saudi Arabia, it's just one of those things. If you cannot bear living under such laws, don't live there, don't go there. Me, I'm out of here in early 2007 (I've already told the head office, no extentions).

As for homosexuality being illegal in S'pore as stated in the Canadian DFAIT references given by aerius, it is not as black and white as it appears.

I may be wrong, but homosexuality per se is not illegal in Singapore.
The Singapore government has also stated that there are gays in the Singapore civil service and I personally know gays in the Singapore civil service.

Compulsory national service in Singapore is not excluded for gay men and bureaucracies being what they are, there is even a well-known bureaucratic code no. that "declared" gay conscripts are categorised in (the no. is supposedly derived from the form no. that they are supposed to sign when declaring their sexual orientation). My parent battalion had a clerk/storeman who was not only known to be openly gay and declared so, but was also known at least within the battalion as a cross-dresser when in civvy street (his "female name" was also known within the unit).

Personally, I would categorise the situation as sort of an implicit don't ask, don't tell. For the most part, the officialdom will not ask you as a routine matter of course what orientation are you, and what you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business. In return, don't flaunt your orientation, don't ask for public gay events, etc. Is it fair or ideal? Fuck no. But things are changing, perhaps too slowly for those involved, but they are changing. 15-20 years ago, I don't think the issue of gays were even publicly discussed in the S'pore newspapers.

[Ford Prefect]

What ticks me off is that after all the television campaigns about laws in other countries, actual recent cases of this happening (Corby in Indonesia and that), that piece on the Consular Affairs Site that Aerius posted, someone goes head and does it anyway, people get angry and the fucking Government gives into them.

[Chris OFarrell]

What ticks me off is that after all the television campaigns about laws in other countries, actual recent cases of this happening (Corby in Indonesia and that), that piece on the Consular Affairs Site that Aerius posted, someone goes head and does it anyway, people get angry and the fucking Government gives into them.

It's just Howard scoring cheap political points. Both he and the Singaporian Government know he isn't going to convince them to change their mind. But he looks all heroic for trying. And if he fails, well everyone knows there wasn't much chance to start with.

[mr friendly guy]

What ticks me off is that after all the television campaigns about laws in other countries, actual recent cases of this happening (Corby in Indonesia and that), that piece on the Consular Affairs Site that Aerius posted, someone goes head and does it anyway, people get angry and the fucking Government gives into them.

Notice how Howard doesn't try to do anything in regards to David Hicks. Howard is smart enough to know which issues will score him the political points.

In any event, I knew about South East Asia's tough line on drugs when I was only what, nine growing up in the 80s when Malaysia executed 2 Aussie drug smugglers. That of course led to a diplomatic spat between Australia and Malaysia thanks to stupidity by the PM Hawke calling Malaysia's justice system barbaric. At least Howard knows how to do a diplomatic response, raising the issue behind the scenes with Singapore.

[Ford Prefect]

Notice how Howard doesn't try to do anything in regards to David Hicks. Howard is smart enough to know which issues will score him the political points.

That's very true, and I honestly hadn't thought of that. Hicks rarely comes up in my mind, probably because he doesn't get covered very often.

[Trekdestroyer]

You know if this guy was from Columbia or Mexico, maybe I would understand the difference between the two country's drug laws. But no, he's from AUSTRALIA where we never hear about heroin at all! I am very interested how difficult it is to get it into the country from South America.
PS:Lots of countries have laws against drug possession. It's just not alll countries have the death penalty for it.

[mr friendly guy]

You know if this guy was from Columbia or Mexico, maybe I would understand the difference between the two country's drug laws. But no, he's from AUSTRALIA where we never hear about heroin at all! I am very interested how difficult it is to get it into the country from South America.
PS:Lots of countries have laws against drug possession. It's just not alll countries have the death penalty for it.

I don't know how easy it is to get heroin into Australia, but it is a problem here even if North America doesn't hear about it. In Western Australia we have a Naltrexone clinic which features the controversial naltrexone implant. Naltrexone is an opiod antagonist, the idea is that if you give it to the addict, even if they take heroin they won't get the high, and eventually this would condition them to get off.

I remember visiting that clinic researching for a university report and then seeing an addict telling people how she is going to beat the addiction, start screaming as soon as the naloxone is given as part of rapid detox. Needless to say during interviews with staff my colleagues and myself would hear intermittent screaming.

[aerius]

Hasn't it always been the case that if you are visiting another country, you are subject to their laws, not your own? Nobody forced him to go to Singapore, he breached their laws, he's going to get his ass kicked, what does this have to do with our government? Yes, so he's an Australian citizen, boo hoo hoo, too bad, he answers to their authority, because he's over there.

Yup, says that plain as day on every Foreign Office or Consular affairs site. Click on any country and it'll say "local laws and penalties apply". And people still keep thinking their citizenships will somehow save them.

You know if this guy was from Columbia or Mexico, maybe I would understand the difference between the two country's drug laws. But no, he's from AUSTRALIA where we never hear about heroin at all! I am very interested how difficult it is to get it into the country from South America.

What the fuck are you blabbering about you retarded crack monkey? You make no fucking sense.

PS:Lots of countries have laws against drug possession. It's just not alll countries have the death penalty for it.

Thank you for stating the obvious you worthless moron.

[The Yosemite Bear]

its the fault of all those stupid expliotational movies from the 1980's although after the one where they were supposed to execute Jaquin Pheonix.....

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well it started with THIS movie

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0023042/

which opened the door for public apeals against what a home state might consider cruel and unusual punishment. but in the 1970's an amercican was caught with a lot of hash in Turkey... Prompting THIS Film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077928/

which formed the basis of all the 1980's innocent girl raped in forign prison escape murder films in the 1980's and 1990's. As the male gladiator films of the same time period.

[Crossroads Inc.]

My feelings are mixed.

On the face of it, I am against the Death Penalty on princaple, and truely think no one has the right to take the life of another.

On the other hand, this is Heroin. One of the worst addictive and destructive drugs. This is NOT a victiumless crime. People will waste their lives spending all they have just to get their next fix of this stuff while it detroys their body.

If this guy had got in trouble for, oh say, selling Pot, I would have much different feelings. But Heroin? Lock him up and throw away the key.

[The Yosemite Bear]

how about the us government and our combat soldiers. We still have a reputation up through the 1970s of getting our wounded hooked on herion. Jimi Hendrix got hooked in Veitnam, as did my stepdad and man others. I'm not sure what the military now perscribes for crippling injuries, but we do have an annoying tendancy particularly with this war of sending people back with such, and often a side point an addiction to pain reduction medications

[Durandal]

how about the us government and our combat soldiers. We still have a reputation up through the 1970s of getting our wounded hooked on herion. Jimi Hendrix got hooked in Veitnam, as did my stepdad and man others. I'm not sure what the military now perscribes for crippling injuries, but we do have an annoying tendancy particularly with this war of sending people back with such, and often a side point an addiction to pain reduction medications

Indeed, heroin is bad, but let's not pretend there aren't legal prescription drugs out there that aren't just as bad or worse.

[Darth Wong]

Indeed, heroin is bad, but let's not pretend there aren't legal prescription drugs out there that aren't just as bad or worse.

If someone was trafficking in stolen prescription drugs that were intended for illlicit street use rather than being dispensed through proper medical channels, I would want him charged too.

[Durandal]

Indeed, heroin is bad, but let's not pretend there aren't legal prescription drugs out there that aren't just as bad or worse.

If someone was trafficking in stolen prescription drugs that were intended for illlicit street use rather than being dispensed through proper medical channels, I would want him charged too.

And indeed he would be. But this is getting into War on Drugs territory, which really isn't the original topic.

[Grand Moff Yenchin]

I may be wrong, but homosexuality per se is not illegal in Singapore.
The Singapore government has also stated that there are gays in the Singapore civil service and I personally know gays in the Singapore civil service.

AFAIK, it's sodomy that's illegal in Singapore, not gay.

[Darth Wong]

The War on Drugs may be a hijack from the original topic, but so is free-speech or discrimination, both of which are protected human rights under the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, whereas there is no such thing as the human right to traffic in illicit drugs. So it's apples and oranges to compare unfair gender discrimination or political speech restrictions to harsh penalties for heroin trafficking.

[Lusankya]

From what I've gathered, the reason that Corby and Leslie got the fuss kicked up against them was because they're both young women. I don't consider Corby to be that good looking, but she's not ugly, and she always presented herself well in public, which scored her bonus points, and Leslie's a swimsuit model, which really speaks for itself. I think Nguyen's getting this attention (three years after the offence) because his mother rode on the attention from Corby and Leslie to get attention to him.

I've not met many (read: any) people with sympathy for the Bali nine, because they're:

a) Considered to be stupid by most Australians because they did it so soon after all the Corby foo-foo-rah, and
b) ugly. Every single one of them is ugly. They don't look pretty on tv, so the media's not showing them because they're not pretty to look at.

[LordShaithis]

So we're sure the guy is actually guilty? I suppose he would be, since I can't imagine Singapore wanting to cause a pointless stink by hanging a foreign national just for the hell of it. Okay, so he's guilty.

With that in mind, I say fuck him. If Canada declares the wearing of a blue hat to be punishable by guillotine, go ahead and write their PM a nasty letter. But leave your goddamn blue hat at home next time you scoot across the border to visit the casino.

[mr friendly guy]

So we're sure the guy is actually guilty?

He pretty much admitted he was smuggling drugs to help pay off his brother's debt, so yeah we are sure.