So how racist are the people around you?

[Temjin]

I would admit to having a few anti-native sentiments. But don't get me wrong, I have no problems with native people themselves, it's just that as a group, they're doing a few things that piss me off.

For example, a year or so ago, a kid walking with a screwdriver towards a police officer got shot and killed. The native community in the North End (where I live) immediately got up in arms about it. They were accusing the cop of not doing enough negotiating, for not paying enough attention, for not shooting the screwdriver out of his hand, and just generally being rascist (he was Metis). A group even suggested turning at least a small portion of the North End (again, where I live) into an urban reserve, so they can uphold the law themselves.

Oh, and Zor, you're a 'pegger?

[Captain Cyran]

Much like Silence and I. My racism tends to go along behavior, way of speech, and dress. In short, and to be terribly un-PC. I don't hate black people, I hate Niggers. Black people are people I can have a conversation with, people who just try to live their lives and get a good education and a good job. Niggers are those who think I owe them something because their black and I'm white. They're the one's who don't try and as such are patheticly educated.

In terms of the people I hang out with. In my rooms with my friends, racial, gender, and ethnic jokes are quite usual. Though anything supposed to be taken in seriousness is usually met with glares and the occasional smack upside the head. Three out of the eight people are somewhat racist, one of which I think just in a pathetic attempt to fit in. Another, my roommate, admits to it. The other is a deeply intrenched republican (Not conservative, I believe there is a difference) and I doubt he realizes it and I'm usually not in the mood to get into a shouting match with him to prove my point.

[aerius]

In your personal life, among friends and family and co-workers, how much racism is there when only people of your own race are in the room? Who are they racist against?

Among my friends and co-workers, it's impossible to have only people of my race in the room. Multi-cultural world, just doesn't happen, possible, but hasn't happened yet.

With my parents, they were immigrants and had to put up with a lot more shit in their day than I ever did. That plus being born in "the old days" has left them with some racist tendencies. My mom is somewhat wary of white people and tend to look down on them a bit claiming they're too greedy and somewhat lazy. Both of them are a bit uncomfortable with blacks and didn't want me associating too much with them when I was young. They also believe (though they'll never outright say it) that the Asian race is the best one of them all.

They will never outright say this to a stranger, only among their close friends, and you probably wouldn't know they were racist unless you've known them for a while and knew what to look for.

[CaptJodan]

Family: Yes. One grandparent on each side has shown very strong race hating tendencies. Both grew up in the south, and both are religious fundies. I'm not saying there's causation, but there is correlation.

Work: Not much here, I work in a university setting and it's not something you usually see. I work with about 5 or so homosexual males, one bisexual female, and pretty much every racial ethnic group you can think of. Most of the people who work here and may have pretty staunch feelings against a group usually soon figures out that the people they work with aren't that bad, and get over it, or just don't speak about it.

The one exception to that is this one kid who is of arab decent (from Saudi). He enjoys a lot of racial jokes, but even then he doesn't mean them as anything but jokes. He's a big America fan. He generally loves telling such jokes in front of the very person who may be offended by it if taken the wrong way.

Most of the racism I see is my grandparents, and on occasion my father who still has holdovers from his childhood and from his father. I've never seen any of them make such slurs in public, but behind closed doors it's often said. I usually say something when it's around me, though, so it's gotten to be less around me over the years.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I live in a redneck town

[Mr. Coffee]

Well, how racist are some of the people I'm around...

First of, I live in the DEEP SOUTH. H-Town, Alabama is basically the Belt Buckle of the Bible Belt. There are people in Madison County that aren't yet convinced that the South Really did not win. With the exception of the people at UAH, Redstone Arsenal, and the Defense Contractors around here, this town is largely populated by bigoted southern stereotypes.

Familly

With the exception of my Mother, my Mom's side of the familly is full of people that think "He's not bad, for a nigger" is a socially acceptable complement for a black man.

Work

My Boss is probably one of the most bigoted assholes I've ever met, yet he's also the fairest when it comes to payday. He might say things about "those damned spics", but he pays my buddy Gomez the same wage he pays me and buys the beer for both of us come friday.

Myself

I couldn't give a rats ass about your skin tone, ethnic background, or religion. I tend to view everyone around me as "blah" until they proive to be less or more then "blah". Less then blah and you're an asshole, more then blah and you're cool by me.

My familly, excepting my Mom and a handful of cousins, I generall aviod and/or ignore them.

People I work with, if you put out as hard as I do, then you're alright by me. Put out less and I'll be the first in line to tell you not to show up next Monday.


People I hang out with socially, I give you the benifit of the doubt and wait until you prove that you're an asshole.

[Mr. Coffee]

One thing I got to know is this...

My bro, Gomez, imigrated from Mexico. He came here with he eyes all starred up with the "American Dream", got his citizenship, busted his ass, and made a life for homself (Not a damned bad life for himself, his wife, and his five (soon to be six) member brood of children). He's such a good guy that he even runs interference between his mother and his sister, Christy, whom I'm dating fairly seriously, about us "living in sin".

But at the same time, Gomex has told me some of the most vile (yet hilarious, I'll admit, I laughed... I'm a dick, but it was still funny, damnit) Mexican joke's I've everheard.

So my question is...

If a member of a certain minority tells a racist joke aimed at the minority they belong to, is it really racist?


Also, why aren't there any good jokes about whites? I feel really left out on this one. Why is it that every other minority get's jokes, but I don't?

Nevermind me, just a little mild brain farts after a few beers...

[RedImperator]

For what it's worth, psychologists make a distinction between racial predjudice and racism. Predjudice is sitting at the bar with your other white (or black, or Hispanic, or whatever) friends grumbling about the niggers (or spics, or crackers, or whatever). Racism is giving the promotion to the white guy simply because he's white. The difference between the two is that to be racist, you have to be capable of exercising power. You can actually have racism without predjudice; institutional racism for example, can be in the form of government policies that consistently favor one race without anyone carrying out those policies being aware of it or desiring to favor any particular race.

Anyway, as far as everyday racism, your perspective changes when you're a white teacher in a high school that's 98% black. Either you become a raging racist or you lose that vestige of racism almost all white Americans get exposed to culturally. Most do the latter, though there are a few of the former (fortunately not in my department).

I don't understand how anyone could be around these kids every day and hold on to his old notions of how black people act. And anyone who sees how badly these kids have been shafted their whole lives and doesn't think there's such a thing as institutional racism or that the dysfunctional elements of black culture are a result of the warped environment that created it is blind or willfully stupid.

[Danny Bhoy]

One thing I got to know is this...

My bro, Gomez, imigrated from Mexico. He came here with he eyes all starred up with the "American Dream", got his citizenship, busted his ass, and made a life for homself (Not a damned bad life for himself, his wife, and his five (soon to be six) member brood of children). He's such a good guy that he even runs interference between his mother and his sister, Christy, whom I'm dating fairly seriously, about us "living in sin".

But at the same time, Gomex has told me some of the most vile (yet hilarious, I'll admit, I laughed... I'm a dick, but it was still funny, damnit) Mexican joke's I've everheard.

So my question is...

If a member of a certain minority tells a racist joke aimed at the minority they belong to, is it really racist?

I have a similar experience.

When I was doing my A Levels (pre university), my drinking buddies were ethnic Indian. Now I'm ethnic Chinese which in Singapore means I'm one of the majority. Now these guys liked to tell racist/ethnic jokes, some of which were about Chinese. An example: "Q: What happens when you run over 2 chinese with a steamroller? A: You get a double yellow line." Stupid, juvenile, but I found it fucking hilarious.

Some of their jokes were about other minorities in S'pore, e.g. the Malays. Some of their jokes were about the various Indian ethnicities like Gujeratis, Sindhis, Tamils, and Sikhs (bearing in mind that the pack that I ran with were made up of Indians from these groups too). Mostly silly and juvenile but which I found hilarious too.

Was it racist? Probably. But that I found it always easy to laugh or sneer at oneself. Actually, I find myself rather accepting of racial/religious epithets hurled at me if they're more or less accurate, "chink", "yellow monkey" (I'm neither yellow nor simian but I know what they're referring to), "fenian bassa", "papist cunt" and so forth (however, being called "Jap" pisses me off). Of course, I would reply in kind.

And yes I do admit that occasionally I'd use racial/religious epithets to refer to others: Whites, Blacks, Arabs, Jews, Orangemen. Is it wrong? I guess it is. But at that time of usage, it felt right to me to express that anger/frustration/irritation that I felt towards that particular race/sect at that particular moment in that way. So maybe in the final analysis, I do agree that I am racist to a degree. Having said that, I do recognise limits. I might refer to supporters of Spurs as Yids, but to do something like sing that notorious terrace ditty "Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz" or participate in the Gas Chamber Hiss at a football match would be far beyond the pale.

[m.castaldo]

I wouldn't call myself racist, but I do have a racial prejudice against gangsta/ghetto types, no matter the class. If you want to dress and talk like uneducated trash, then why should I try and deal with you on a higher level?

[Darth Wong]

I echo the sentiments about stupid assholes walking around with the "gangsta" look. But I distrust those fuckers whether they're white or black; it's not as if a white teenager dressed like a gangsta seems any more trustworthy to me than a black one.

[Lagmonster]

Ottawa isn't too bad for racism, near as I can tell. It's a small town with an overinflated sense of self-importance, so people tend to prefer quiet snobbery to low-brow hostility.

That said, myself, and a number of other people, really don't give recently-landed Somalis much of a break. It doesn't help that there's a few transplanted tribes in Ottawa that are determined to ignore every law in Canada (the one in the south end of town - a cheap townhouse community - has 'community leaders' that dubbed their neighbourhood 'Little Somalia' and have been repeatedly smacked down for bullying white and black neighbours alike into leaving 'their' neighbourhood), but in general, they aren't given even the same trust you'd extend to a gangsta-type teenager.

[Darth Wong]

It's true; myself and everyone I know all hold very negative views of Somalians. But I would argue that this is not really racism, unless Somalians are a distinct race rather than nationality. The problem is a wave of refugees from a country whose primary economic product seems to be drugs and guns.

[SirNitram]

Tev already outlined the locals, so, my own racism..

Well, same as others, 'gangsta's get a negative reaction.. They're just not the sort you want to interact with... But nor do I trust white guys who dress like that. Hell, they're worse in my mind.

When I was smaller, I was apparently pretty prejudiced. When my elementary school introduced me to a black teacher, I was profoundly confused, and when asked about why I was confused she was going to teach me something, I exclaimed '..But you're black.'. That one got retold far too many times for me to be comfortable with, now I'm an adult and have gotten over that.

I've got deep, deep running 'nationalism', in the sense that certain nationalities and their majorities are on my shit-list. The French are on the top for, well, shafting the folks who went and rioted for, what, forty years, then acting so surprised when they got stupid, jobless idiots who were violent.

[Vicious]

I'd have to agree with what DW and others have said: if you act like a stereotype or obviously identify yourself with a "culture" (like the "gangsta" culture), regardless of skin color, I'll think of you that way until you prove otherwise. Stereotypes exist, but they aren't established by skin color; they're established by attitude. If you dress decently and work hard and demonstrate that you are at least trying to learn the local language, then my reaction will be the same towards you regardless of whether your black, white, hispanic, asian or any other minority. If you insist on adopting some retarded stereotype like the "gangsta" attitude, then you will be treated accordingly.

As for those around me, I'd say that, barring a couple of Republicans I know who have stated that they don't feel safe in an area because there might be blacks around (yes, he actually said that), most of the folks I know are pretty balanced. We tell racial jokes, mostly to laugh at the absurdity of the stereotypes that are used to judge people.

Oh, and for the record I am white, and, for those who may think it not possible, have been on the receiving end of racist comments and attitudes. It's not just minorities who can be and are discriminated against. Living in a predominantly "gangsta" neighborhood, I have received lots of comments about how "this neighborhood is for blacks, not white folks like you" and that I should "go home, whiteboy, you don't belong here".

[Elfdart]

WV is 97% white, 2% African-American, and 1% "Other".

There are still 'black neighborhoods' in the cities, and many smaller towns have generations of blacks living and growing up in just one or two hollers, away from the 'townspeople'.

Growing up in such a society, yes, I've got some racist in me. I have never met a black man that I was sexually attracted to. I see nothing sexy about Denzil Washington or Will Smith. (Prince, on the other hand, who's a very light-skinned Latino-Black, was dreamily exotic to my 16yr old mind)

That's unfortunate. Rebecca says if she weren't married, she would do both Denzel Washington and Will Smith. At the same time.

I see the lack as a part of racism on my part. Hearing my grandma talking about a white woman who took up with a black man as 'shameful' might have been part of it.

Are you sure this is racism and not just taste? Mine change from time to time, but I prefer natural redheads. That's kind of a debit for most black, hispanic and Asian girls.

I'm going to raise my hand here, my bit of racism is I think best described as a classification of sorts. If a black guy is dressed respectably and speaks english I could care less what his skin color is, but another black man who dresses 'gangsta' and speaks some kind of mockery of english is flagged as the race black, complete with all the stereotypes that go with it.

If you look or act like your stereotype I tend to think of you that way, if you act like someone I could talk to and respect then I don't care what you are or where you come from

ditto for me, I really don't care at all what skin color you are, I care ALOT on how you dress and act, that is how I classify people as well. the behavior not the skin color.

Agreed. In addition, I assume that anyone who doesn't pull up his fucking pants and lets his underwear stick out the top is a retard.

[Darth Wong]

I see the lack as a part of racism on my part. Hearing my grandma talking about a white woman who took up with a black man as 'shameful' might have been part of it.

Are you sure this is racism and not just taste? Mine change from time to time, but I prefer natural redheads. That's kind of a debit for most black, hispanic and Asian girls.

Why are "racism" and "taste" necessarily mutually exclusive? Are you saying it's impossible to have racist tastes?

[LordShaithis]

Oh jesus, not this again.

Yes, according to an ultra-literal take on the dictionary definition of racism, preferring tall women is a racist preference in regards to whichever race turns out to have the shortest women on average. Even if you date a woman of that race who just happens to be inordinately tall.

No, nobody in the real world gives a damn about said ultra-literal definition, since that's not what anybody means when they use the word "racism" in real life.

Do we really have to do this again?

[brianeyci]

Do we really have to do this again?

I lurked the last time this happened and don't understand why some people can't get that there is such a thing as harmless racism . Preferring black girlfriends is harmless racism.

Brian

[brianeyci]

EDIT : And yes, racism is still racism so I support that "ultra-literal" take on it because it's the correct definition now back to your regular programming.

Brian

[LordShaithis]

I lurked the last time this happened and don't understand why some people can't get that there is such a thing as harmless racism . Preferring black girlfriends is harmless racism.

Brian

You know this, and I know this. And everytime DW brings it up, there's a six-page flamefest where some retard gets himself banned.

[Darth Wong]

I lurked the last time this happened and don't understand why some people can't get that there is such a thing as harmless racism . Preferring black girlfriends is harmless racism.

Brian

You know this, and I know this. And everytime DW brings it up, there's a six-page flamefest where some retard gets himself banned.

Do you want it to be you this time? Care to explain why the dictionary definition of "racism" is "ultra-liberal" or why that fucking right-wing labeling bullshit of yours counts as a logical argument that has any place on this board?

[Sam Or I]

DW, on your comment about the Somalians (I am asking, I am not challenging anything here, I want to know an honest opinion. I am not going to debate the answer) Could the same logic be applied to the WWII Japanese intrenment camps. I have often argued (on the loosing end) the case that the "Japanese" are not a race, but of a nationalist fear. Not that this did or did not justify what happened.

[LordShaithis]

Do you want it to be you this time? Care to explain why the dictionary definition of "racism" is "ultra-liberal" or why that fucking right-wing labeling bullshit of yours counts as a logical argument that has any place on this board?

Please read my post again, and more closely this time. Thanks.

[Darth Wong]

Do you want it to be you this time? Care to explain why the dictionary definition of "racism" is "ultra-liberal" or why that fucking right-wing labeling bullshit of yours counts as a logical argument that has any place on this board?

Please read my post again, and more closely this time. Thanks.

One last chance, asshole.