US-Iraq conflict

[HemlockGrey]

The reason the Taliban existed was America's involvement in the area. America spent billions to train and arm Islamic Extremists who hated the States, just cause America hated the Commies.

The Commies were a threat to America's interests. God forbid the States act in their own interests- God knows everyone else is a bundle of happy generous joy!

Besides, you would be referring to the Northern Alliance.

Oh fuck you. America goes in where it doesn't belong, fucks with the people there, and then leaves without helping fix the damage they did. Then they expect to be thanked for the 'help.'

And then when we sit it out we get shat on for being isolationist. Or we get shat on for protecting our interests. Or we get shat on for being the homeland of McDonalds. Real great incentive to keep the rest of the world happy.

Right, so your short term goal was more important than the long term effects on the country you were pretending to help. Once that goal was complete, you pulled out and left a destroyed nation to fend for itself, even though you helped destroy it.

Right, because life as a Soviet puppet state and then an eventual spiral into the same utter chaos when the Union collapsed would have been so much better.

I'm sure the Afghan people would have been better of under the Soviets than under the Taliban. And without the Islamic extremists in charge, there would have been no WTC attack.

Except, last I checked, OBL wasn't a dues-paying member of the Taliban, and the Soviet Union did not exactly give a shit about the welfare of it's people.

[Knife]

Oh, please, our goal was to help the Afgans to fight the Soviets. We did it. We were not there to fight for them, we were not there to rebuild their nation, we were there to suply them with the shit they needed to stand a chance against a modern army.

Right, so your short term goal was more important than the long term effects on the country you were pretending to help. Once that goal was complete, you pulled out and left a destroyed nation to fend for itself, even though you helped destroy it.

Either you stay out completely, or you help the country rebuild itself once your done.

Our short term goal was to help a less modern freedom movment that was pitted against a modern army. We helped by suppling arms and training, not by trying to take over for them and do it for them. And we did it. Our long term goal was stopping the expansion of the USSR. We did that too.

So its all or nothing now? I think we balanced the situation in Afganistan durring the 80's quite well. We helped without taking over. We lent a hand and did not take responsibility away from those who wanted to take responsibility. What they did with the freedom that we helped them win is not our responsibility. If they take that freedom and use it against us, then we have the freedom to make a serious reversal in our policy towards them.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Arg. You guys don't get it.

What should have happened after the war, was the Americans saying, 'Look, it was our bombs, our missiles that helped destroy this country so we are going to stick arround and help rebuild it. Build a highway system, some airports, an industry and some secular schools. Help rebuild your infrastructure we helped destroy. Once you're back on your feet we'll leave and let you sink or swim, but we're going to get you to that point first.'

But I get the feeling that option never even crossed your minds. You seem to feel your only post war options are setting up a puppet government, or feeing the second the battle is over. You decry helping the Afghans as interfering with them, but getting involved in their battles is acceptable. That's stinks of hypocracy.

[Knife]

Arg. You guys don't get it.

What should have happened after the war, was the Americans saying, 'Look, it was our bombs, our missiles that helped destroy this country so we are going to stick arround and help rebuild it. Build a highway system, some airports, an industry and some secular schools. Help rebuild your infrastructure we helped destroy. Once you're back on your feet we'll leave and let you sink or swim, but we're going to get you to that point first.'

But I get the feeling that option never even crossed your minds. You seem to feel your only post war options are setting up a puppet government, or feeing the second the battle is over. You decry helping the Afghans as interfering with them, but getting involved in their battles is acceptable. That's stinks of hypocracy.

Not really, we gave them weapons to compete with their enemies. We did not take responsibility to defeat their enemies. Granted, after it was all done, we could have given them bulldozers and stuff. But that does not give us responsibility for creating OBL or the Taliban. Giving one sort of help does not automaticly commit us to continue in other forms of help. They (the freedomfighters) took responsibility to free their country, we helped. We did not say we would rebuild (why would we?) and they AFAIK did not ask. Where is our copability in this?