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Nobody is going to give a shit about some gimmicky "The controller is your sword!" game. Nobody is going to give a shit about a glorified light-gun.

SirNitram wrote:Then I sit in bafflement as to what the article is babbling about in how the companies won't play ball with Microsoft. Unless it's dishonest, which isn't, you know, impossible.

I guess by "play ball with Microsoft" they ment have the game ready within the launch window

By the time the Xbox360 is launched in Australia, Oblivian's release date will be 2-3 months away

LordShaithis wrote:Nobody is going to give a shit about some gimmicky "The controller is your sword!" game. Nobody is going to give a shit about a glorified light-gun.

I don't know about that. People go for gimmicks even when they're not produced by Nintendo, which had a dedicated following.

And that "Controller is your Sword" thing could be good if they make it an option in a game with a standard control scheme available.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Nephtys wrote:Wanna play this ninja game? Buy the samurai-sword handle add-on with tilt detection. Wanna play a hunting game? Buy a shotgun add on for your controller.

Um, neither a sword or gun game would need an attatchment, since the Rev controller has those functions built-in. The only real talk of a controller attatchment was concerning a general standard controller much like the one for the GC, and the possibility of the occasional niche add-on being made.

Not to mention that the Revolution will, apparently, be able to use Gamecube controllers directly, with no adapter needed; thus, anyone who already has a GC also has usable controllers for the system if he doesn't like the new type.

Everyone who's actually used the Revolution controller claims that it's more intuitive even than a keyboard-mouse, which in turn is dramatically better than most controllers for consoles.

As for the original topic, I said it in the previous thread on this issue: Japan is a racist country, but their distaste for the 360 is not based on racism. It's based on the fact that the 360 has ONE game (Kameo) that's even remotely appealing to them, and NO ONE--even in the US--thinks you should buy the system to play Kameo.

Master of Ossus wrote:Everyone who's actually used the Revolution controller claims that it's more intuitive even than a keyboard-mouse, which in turn is dramatically better than most controllers for consoles.

And none of those people are likely to be reliable sources, given how tight Nintendo is on the deal. Do you really think they'll let articles run that go 'I played Revolution and the controller bites'?

Nephtys wrote:And none of those people are likely to be reliable sources, given how tight Nintendo is on the deal. Do you really think they'll let articles run that go 'I played Revolution and the controller bites'?

I wouldn't think they'd have much to say about it, particularly since some of the early reviewers expressed surprise at how intuitive it was, and many mentioned that the keyboard-mouse was their control scheme of choice.

Nephtys wrote:And none of those people are likely to be reliable sources, given how tight Nintendo is on the deal. Do you really think they'll let articles run that go 'I played Revolution and the controller bites'?

More reliable that those people who's entire opinion is based on a short video advert, a few photos, and possible a whole lot of fanboyism.

Master of Ossus wrote:I wouldn't think they'd have much to say about it, particularly since some of the early reviewers expressed surprise at how intuitive it was, and many mentioned that the keyboard-mouse was their control scheme of choice.

I dont care how "intuitive" it is, I care about how usable the sucker is.

I'll wait till real reviews come out on places like Ars Technica, the canned reviews from professional reviewers also said that KOTOR2 was a complete game. We all know how that one turned out.

Nephtys wrote:

Praxis wrote:

Nephtys wrote: It's far more likely a new controller will be a cheap gimmick over practical tool. I certainly don't see any interesting EyeToy games.

But we all know that addons never sell. The Sega CD and 32X ended up being gimmicks instead of being practical, because they were sold seperately and never took off. This controller comes bundled with the system. The DS worked out pretty well.

And it can be used like a traditional controller (buttons and joystick) or like a mouse or a light gun or even eyetoy (movement detection) to a point.

Anyway, what I meant is that Nintendo intends to sell the system based off the controller, so Nintendo disagrees with DarkPrimus' post. Who will be proven right remains to be seen.

My main issue is that Nintendo keeps hyping it up. 'Revolutionize gaming', they say. Low price point, they say. I don't doubt the cheapness of the system (as it's not trying to compete in hardware), but I do doubt the practicality of the controller. It in default form, is an NES controller with a remote. Such is impractical for any game developed past 1992.

Sure. The light gun could be useful in FPS. We'll have to see how well that plays. But to play any other game, you need to buy add-ons. Who wants ten different controller modules lying around? Wanna play this ninja game? Buy the samurai-sword handle add-on with tilt detection. Wanna play a hunting game? Buy a shotgun add on for your controller. Wanna play any old game with a sensable controller? buy an add-on controller for your controller!

Honestly, when the main attraction of a system is it's ability to play stuff from fifteen years ago, that doesn't sound good.

Uh...why would you need all those addons? It already has tilt detection in the remote, why would you need an addon? You don't need a shotgun addon either, all that would do is give you a more realistic way of holding it so it could be optional.

And Nintendo has said that it comes with the nunchaku (the joystick addon).

It really has everything it needs. I don't actually require the light gun for FPS- the fact is, the Revolution controller is a wireless, rumble-equipped gyroscopic mouse. I want to use it as a mouse for FPS, and use the analog stick for movement.

The way I see it, most games won't require an addon. The most common one will be the traditional controller shell- to be honest, I don't get why Nintendo is making that, since it has GameCube controller ports.

I really can't wait to use this in FPS. I don't get FPS on consoles because I absolutely hate the dual joystick FPS setup. It's a poor substitute for a mouse.

In it's default form, the Revolution controller is a gyroscopic mouse with a D-pad, pointer and trigger, and when turned sideways its a tilt sensing NES pad.

Praxis wrote:The most common one will be the traditional controller shell- to be honest, I don't get why Nintendo is making that, since it has GameCube controller ports.

Because they can't guarantee that everyone buying a Revolution already owns a GameCube. Such a practices would be foolish.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Praxis wrote:The most common one will be the traditional controller shell- to be honest, I don't get why Nintendo is making that, since it has GameCube controller ports.

Because they can't guarantee that everyone buying a Revolution already owns a GameCube. Such a practices would be foolish.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to stick a Revolution sticker on a GC controller than to design a new controller with the same shape?

The only reason I can think of to make the shell is if they still want the gyroscope functionality with the traditionally shaped controller.

Pezzoni wrote:

Nephtys wrote:And none of those people are likely to be reliable sources, given how tight Nintendo is on the deal. Do you really think they'll let articles run that go 'I played Revolution and the controller bites'?

More reliable that those people who's entire opinion is based on a short video advert, a few photos, and possible a whole lot of fanboyism.

Please. I for one, have nothing to gain from assuming the controller isn't what it's cracked up to be. I'm skeptical, because radical ideas tend to fail far more than they succeed.

At this early stage, the only people who review the control scheme (no real games for it out either, or even in beta dev), are people that NINTENDO APPROVES OF. This is akin to saying 'despite the facts, the president is not lying about wiretapping. Here, this expert we hired will tell you why'.

Hardly reliable. I'm remaining skeptical until actual consumers get to use it.

Nephtys wrote:

Pezzoni wrote:

Nephtys wrote:And none of those people are likely to be reliable sources, given how tight Nintendo is on the deal. Do you really think they'll let articles run that go 'I played Revolution and the controller bites'?

More reliable that those people who's entire opinion is based on a short video advert, a few photos, and possible a whole lot of fanboyism.

Please. I for one, have nothing to gain from assuming the controller isn't what it's cracked up to be. I'm skeptical, because radical ideas tend to fail far more than they succeed.

Except there is nothing radical here. It's one of the most proven ideas in console and arcade gaming, a lightgun. They've existed since the NES, they've been in Arcades for decades. It's not radical.

At this early stage, the only people who review the control scheme (no real games for it out either, or even in beta dev), are people that NINTENDO APPROVES OF. This is akin to saying 'despite the facts, the president is not lying about wiretapping. Here, this expert we hired will tell you why'.

Yes, but we have this stuff called evidence that the wiretapping is illegal. We have no such that the controller sucks.

Hardly reliable. I'm remaining skeptical until actual consumers get to use it.

There's 'skeptical' and then there's 'fangirl rabid attack based on nothing at all'.

SirNitram wrote:Except there is nothing radical here. It's one of the most proven ideas in console and arcade gaming, a lightgun. They've existed since the NES, they've been in Arcades for decades. It's not radical.

Radical for being a 'key component' of a new system. Exactly what kind of games do you play with a light gun? Shooting games. Hardly the kind of stuff with lasting appeal or particularly diverse play...

SirNitram wrote:

At this early stage, the only people who review the control scheme (no real games for it out either, or even in beta dev), are people that NINTENDO APPROVES OF. This is akin to saying 'despite the facts, the president is not lying about wiretapping. Here, this expert we hired will tell you why'.

Yes, but we have this stuff called evidence that the wiretapping is illegal. We have no such that the controller sucks.

The analogy was referring to how trusting someone's paid pet is not a reliable source of information. Not the evidence of suck or not. I'm remaining skeptical, because it's of course in a company's best interests to make sure nothing but good news leaks.

SirNitram wrote:

Hardly reliable. I'm remaining skeptical until actual consumers get to use it.

There's 'skeptical' and then there's 'fangirl rabid attack based on nothing at all'.

It's based on the facts that 1. Nintendo promises a 'revolution' in gaming. 2. This revolution is a fancy lightgun with motion detection. Doesn't seem too new, or too open for game diversity to me.

Nephtys wrote:

SirNitram wrote:Except there is nothing radical here. It's one of the most proven ideas in console and arcade gaming, a lightgun. They've existed since the NES, they've been in Arcades for decades. It's not radical.

Radical for being a 'key component' of a new system. Exactly what kind of games do you play with a light gun? Shooting games. Hardly the kind of stuff with lasting appeal or particularly diverse play...

You've never seen the kind of dedicated fanbases FPS' gather. To say nothing of other applications of the concept.

SirNitram wrote:

At this early stage, the only people who review the control scheme (no real games for it out either, or even in beta dev), are people that NINTENDO APPROVES OF. This is akin to saying 'despite the facts, the president is not lying about wiretapping. Here, this expert we hired will tell you why'.

Yes, but we have this stuff called evidence that the wiretapping is illegal. We have no such that the controller sucks.

The analogy was referring to how trusting someone's paid pet is not a reliable source of information. Not the evidence of suck or not. I'm remaining skeptical, because it's of course in a company's best interests to make sure nothing but good news leaks.

The fact there is good news should be considered, instead of gleefully tossed aside in favor of declaring it a gimmick and a failure out of hand.

SirNitram wrote:

Hardly reliable. I'm remaining skeptical until actual consumers get to use it.

There's 'skeptical' and then there's 'fangirl rabid attack based on nothing at all'.

It's based on the facts that 1. Nintendo promises a 'revolution' in gaming. 2. This revolution is a fancy lightgun with motion detection. Doesn't seem too new, or too open for game diversity to me.

Of course it's not new! Just last post you complained it was too 'gimmicky'. Now it's 'too old'? Make up your mind!

It's open for diversity at very least as much as other controllers are, and moreso as motion detection allows options not used so far. The only possible complaint would be that people won't try the motion detection; but the DS has shown people will take a chance.

Nitpick: Console light guns have actually been around since the Maxnavox Odessy in 1972...

Like I said. Such early stage testers are hardly reliable or objective sources. Game controllers have evolved steadilly for years (more buttons, sticks, etc), but such a change like this has a good chance of falling flat like Virtualboy, ROB and Power Glove.

There's a big difference between having a good concept, and good implementation. The technology is not new, that's true. Light gun games are also not new. But using the point-click technology and adding it to things like traditional FPS and whatever else you can do with the system (which I'm not sure of, thus more skepticism), and that's a new concept. Which may fall flat on it's face. I am not denying it's not another option developers can use. What I'm saying is that it may shoehorn developers to develop for that, when they could have done a better job with other control schemes.

Nephtys wrote:Like I said. Such early stage testers are hardly reliable or objective sources.

See, here's the problem. Everything I've heard about the controller has been praise from game developers who got to fiddle with it, not NDA-slave employee testers. These people have no incentive to get involved if it sucks; yet apparently they are getting involved and are raving about it.

SirNitram wrote:

Nephtys wrote:

Pezzoni wrote: More reliable that those people who's entire opinion is based on a short video advert, a few photos, and possible a whole lot of fanboyism.

Please. I for one, have nothing to gain from assuming the controller isn't what it's cracked up to be. I'm skeptical, because radical ideas tend to fail far more than they succeed.

Except there is nothing radical here. It's one of the most proven ideas in console and arcade gaming, a lightgun. They've existed since the NES, they've been in Arcades for decades. It's not radical.

A lightgun and a gyro-mouse.
Personally, I'm more interested in the gyro-mouse function.
And unlike a light gun, you can actually move it and use it as a pointer (a light gun paints the targets white and flashes the screen to pick up if it hit or not, you can't use it to click and drag stuff).

Praxis wrote:A lightgun and a gyro-mouse.
Personally, I'm more interested in the gyro-mouse function.
And unlike a light gun, you can actually move it and use it as a pointer (a light gun paints the targets white and flashes the screen to pick up if it hit or not, you can't use it to click and drag stuff).

That's where it will be made or broken, really. The Rev has normal games locked in and is poised to garner all the light gun enthusiasts. The only risk is in exploiting the gyro-mouse.

MKSheppard wrote:The X-Box is OMGLOL T3H FAILURE!

Cheer up, apparently the 360 is failing worse.

face it, ecks-baux tree-sixxy is for the frat boy casual gamer crowd. It's not meant for the 100H marathon Hardcore RPG player, this is why it's not doing well in Japan.