Battle of the superweapons

PSW: discuss Star Wars without "versus" arguments.

Moderator: Vympel

Who wins?

DS2
29
73%
Tarkin
1
3%
Eclipse
1
3%
Sun Crusher
5
13%
Galaxy Gun
3
8%
DS1
1
3%
 
Total votes: 40

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nightmare
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Post by nightmare »

Stark wrote:Thats utterly retarded, but also on a completely different level than penetrating the shields and hull to reach the reactor core of a Death Star.
dragon wrote:But yeah it punching through that Star Destroyer was a bit over the top but then what can you expect form that arthor.
It's not, actually. Going by the description of quantum armour, any other armour, even superdense, should be like air for it. Well, maybe not air, but you see the point. What's bad is that KJA started to use quantum armour on other stuff, like Lando's gemdivers, and consequently downgraded his already max-wanked armour with even worse wank over corusca gems and general accessibility. You'd wonder why not everyone have quantum armour by now...
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Post by El Moose Monstero »

Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the DS weapon is direct energy with no chain reactions or what not, then it's reactor must be able to generate enough to power each shot and recharge. Wouldn't they then simply be able to reroute the energy from the superlaser into the shield grid in order to survive the beam?

Unless of course shield technology hasn't come on far enough to deal with such a large amount of energy, otherwise - planets would have it and the DS would be pointless. :?
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Post by Surlethe »

Lazarus wrote:
I can't believe people are even considering the idea that the Suncrusher is really invulnerable and could pass through other ships unharmed at ridiculous speeds.
Actually it is shown doing exactly that in one of the Jedi Academy books, when it flies straight through the command superstructure of an ISD and out the other side, disabling the ship so it falls into one of the maws black holes.
There are, quite simply, orders of magnitude of difference between an ISD's bridge shields and the Death Star's shields, and orders of magnitude of difference in thickness between an ISD's bridge and the Death Star itself, not to mention orders of magnitude of difference between the density of the core of a planet, and the density of the Death Star's core. If you want the Suncrusher to take down a Death Star, you need to establish its wanktastic armor still holds after increasing the environmental conditions a millionfold.
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Post by Lazarus »

I wasn't suggesting there wasn't, I was just stating that the Sun Crusher CAN pass through other ships unharmed at ridiculous speeds. Whether it could do the same withe the DS is probably impossible to know.
As dragon said, in the last JA book, the Sun Crusher fires a torpedo at the prototype DS, which has only skeletal superstructure. The torpedo fizzled out because there wasn't enough material present to sustain the reaction, however in a fully completed DS there would be much more mass available, and perhaps the reaction could be sustained. Either way, the torpedo took out a considerable portion of the prototype DS superstructure, so a few more into a completed DS would surely cause severe damage, if not destroy it. Even if it was immobilised with a tractor beam, it can still fire its weapon.
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Post by Lex »

Lazarus wrote:I wasn't suggesting there wasn't, I was just stating that the Sun Crusher CAN pass through other ships unharmed at ridiculous speeds. Whether it could do the same withe the DS is probably impossible to know.
As dragon said, in the last JA book, the Sun Crusher fires a torpedo at the prototype DS, which has only skeletal superstructure. The torpedo fizzled out because there wasn't enough material present to sustain the reaction, however in a fully completed DS there would be much more mass available, and perhaps the reaction could be sustained. Either way, the torpedo took out a considerable portion of the prototype DS superstructure, so a few more into a completed DS would surely cause severe damage, if not destroy it. Even if it was immobilised with a tractor beam, it can still fire its weapon.
yes, but the key of the sun crushers weapon is causing malfunctions in the core of whatever it targes... therefore its name... its not supposed to deal damage to superstructure... its supposed to set the core on fire in order to collapse suns and it was obviously not designed to fight death stars, though the novel implies that hitting the core would have destroyed the death star.
stupid idea to have a one man fighter, designed to make a sneak attack on suns fight against a battlestation manned with millions designed to fight planets and fleets!
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Post by CaptainChewbacca »

Didn't one torpedo dissolve/vaporize something like eight percent of the prototype's mass? Someone with a book wil have to check that.

edit: And also, can't the SC just stay behind the Death star? I mean, that superlaser isn't omnidirectional, and I doubt that thing can spin on its axis faster than the SC can orbit it.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Didn't one torpedo dissolve/vaporize something like eight percent of the prototype's mass? Someone with a book wil have to check that.

edit: And also, can't the SC just stay behind the Death star? I mean, that superlaser isn't omnidirectional, and I doubt that thing can spin on its axis faster than the SC can orbit it.
And that would matter a fuck out of the hundreds of turbolasers pounding the pilot to mush?
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Post by Surlethe »

Lazarus wrote:I wasn't suggesting there wasn't, I was just stating that the Sun Crusher CAN pass through other ships unharmed at ridiculous speeds. Whether it could do the same withe the DS is probably impossible to know.
At that point, then, parsimony takes over, and, so no; the Sun Crusher will be unable to pass through a Death Star unharmed, let alone get through the shields.
As dragon said, in the last JA book, the Sun Crusher fires a torpedo at the prototype DS, which has only skeletal superstructure. The torpedo fizzled out because there wasn't enough material present to sustain the reaction, however in a fully completed DS there would be much more mass available, and perhaps the reaction could be sustained. Either way, the torpedo took out a considerable portion of the prototype DS superstructure, so a few more into a completed DS would surely cause severe damage, if not destroy it. Even if it was immobilised with a tractor beam, it can still fire its weapon.
Of course, you have to get through the shields first, and since we don't know the energy output of the Sun Crusher's torpedo, we can't tell how much damage it'll do to shields. It's some sort of chain reaction, so it would make sense the torpedo only carries enough energy to initiate the reaction; and since the reaction requires mass, it's safe enough to say that its mechanism won't be effective at all against shielded targets.
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Post by dragon »

Of course, you have to get through the shields first, and since we don't know the energy output of the Sun Crusher's torpedo, we can't tell how much damage it'll do to shields. It's some sort of chain reaction, so it would make sense the torpedo only carries enough energy to initiate the reaction; and since the reaction requires mass, it's safe enough to say that its mechanism won't be effective at all against shielded targets.
But fighters had no problems getting into the DS1 so did it not have shields.
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Post by OmegaGuy »

It had shields, there were just gaps in them.
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Post by Surlethe »

dragon wrote:But fighters had no problems getting into the DS1 so did it not have shields.
They skimmed the surface, not actually flying inside the ship. That doesn't require penetrating the shields.
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Post by Crossroads Inc. »

You know, the long and short of this whole thread is the Death Stars kill everything else, then DS-II kills DS-I.

What would REALLY be an interesting question is which Doomsday Device would you like to have?

Me? World Devastator, all the way.
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Post by Turin »

El Moose Monstero wrote:Maybe I'm missing something here, but if the DS weapon is direct energy with no chain reactions or what not, then it's reactor must be able to generate enough to power each shot and recharge. Wouldn't they then simply be able to reroute the energy from the superlaser into the shield grid in order to survive the beam?

Unless of course shield technology hasn't come on far enough to deal with such a large amount of energy, otherwise - planets would have it and the DS would be pointless. :?
Even if were possible to redirect the entirety of the reactor energy to the shields (I'm not saying it is), you'd be dividing that energy amongst thousands (millions?) of individual shield generators. A single blast carrying an equivalent amount of firepower (like, another DS) would punch through the shields in a localized area and deliver its energy into the target beyond before the adjacent shields could ever pump enough energy in to compensate for it.
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Post by dragon »

Surlethe wrote:
dragon wrote:But fighters had no problems getting into the DS1 so did it not have shields.
They skimmed the surface, not actually flying inside the ship. That doesn't require penetrating the shields.
Ok they were skimming the surface outside of the shields yet their weapons were impacting on the surface causing damage. Ok I know its late here but something doesn't seem right.
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Post by Surlethe »

dragon wrote:
Surlethe wrote:
dragon wrote:But fighters had no problems getting into the DS1 so did it not have shields.
They skimmed the surface, not actually flying inside the ship. That doesn't require penetrating the shields.
Ok they were skimming the surface outside of the shields yet their weapons were impacting on the surface causing damage. Ok I know its late here but something doesn't seem right.
It doesn't seem too improbable for some elements of the surface to be above the shields; but if starfighters were able to penetrate the shields, and able to damage the superstructure with measly fighter cannon, then why wasn't an hemisphere destroyed in Alderaan's explosion?
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Post by dragon »

Surlethe wrote:
dragon wrote:
Surlethe wrote: They skimmed the surface, not actually flying inside the ship. That doesn't require penetrating the shields.
Ok they were skimming the surface outside of the shields yet their weapons were impacting on the surface causing damage. Ok I know its late here but something doesn't seem right.
It doesn't seem too improbable for some elements of the surface to be above the shields; but if starfighters were able to penetrate the shields, and able to damage the superstructure with measly fighter cannon, then why wasn't an hemisphere destroyed in Alderaan's explosion?
Hum thats a good question. Maybe shielding an object that big takes a lot of power and since they weren't worried about the fighter maybe they were conserving their power while they charged up their weapons.
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Post by Lazarus »

Concerning DS shields, evidence from the battle of Yavin clearly indicates there were no shields in operation at the time (Lukes strafing run on the surface causes hull damage). However, extrapolation from Alderaan's destruction suggests that shields can be generated.
Perhaps as dragon said the shields simply weren't up at Yavin, although why this would be I really don't know. IMO, the evidence from Yavin is direct and shows no shields, whilst the extrapolation is not definite (the DS could have prevented damage in some other way), so I would say that a DS does not have shields.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Lazarus wrote:Concerning DS shields, evidence from the battle of Yavin clearly indicates there were no shields in operation at the time (Lukes strafing run on the surface causes hull damage). However, extrapolation from Alderaan's destruction suggests that shields can be generated.
Perhaps as dragon said the shields simply weren't up at Yavin, although why this would be I really don't know. IMO, the evidence from Yavin is direct and shows no shields, whilst the extrapolation is not definite (the DS could have prevented damage in some other way), so I would say that a DS does not have shields.
Wow, dumbfuck. So because Fighter grade weaponry(Kt-MT) can affect small portions of the superstructure....yet a blast that is magnitudes of greater doesn't obliterate huge portions of the super structure, you conclude it does not have shields.

Guess that means, when we see explosions in episode 3 on the Invisible Hand or other cap ships from weaponry of fighter grade...must mean no shields there either. :roll:
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Post by Ghost Rider »

dragon wrote:
Surlethe wrote:
dragon wrote: Ok they were skimming the surface outside of the shields yet their weapons were impacting on the surface causing damage. Ok I know its late here but something doesn't seem right.
It doesn't seem too improbable for some elements of the surface to be above the shields; but if starfighters were able to penetrate the shields, and able to damage the superstructure with measly fighter cannon, then why wasn't an hemisphere destroyed in Alderaan's explosion?
Hum thats a good question. Maybe shielding an object that big takes a lot of power and since they weren't worried about the fighter maybe they were conserving their power while they charged up their weapons.
We saw structres on the level of captial class ships get affected by starfighters in Epidsode three.

We know in general how the shields work...small portions can be taken down by fighters, but that the whole shield is not adversly affected. Shields in SW are not all in one shot deals.
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Post by Darth Yoshi »

It could be similar to the shields the Gungans used on Naboo. It'll stop incoming fire, up to a certain point, but small, relatively slow moving objects can pass through with little difficulty.
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Post by Lord Pounder »

To be honest i don't think either Death Stars would last long. You gotta think of this battle as being like a Royal Rumble. Everyone is gonna gank the big guy. In my opinion each Death Star hits the other in the opening seconds.

The Galaxy Gun will shoot lumps out of the Eclipse then returns fire and destroys it. However a big Star Dreadnaught like that will have trouble targeting and hitting a Star Fighter sized ship like the Sun Crisher.

The Sun crusher has only so many Nova Torps and from what I've seen they seem to be a reaction based weapon, i have sever doubts that the Eclipses shields can be penetrated, it depends what the GG does before hand.

My opinion is that the Eclipse will endure the SC's torps and then bombard the area with shots. The shots are bound to hit the SC somewhere. The SC armour can be wanked as much as you like but the engines and guns aren't quantiumwankium, and if you bang a ship about enough something inside the ship is gonna break and so the SC will be dead in space and unarmed. The Eclipse's Commander can then simply fly off and leave the SC's pilot to die cold and alone.

This all pure speculation however and I'm probably wrong.
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