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It's also a fact that the films are filled with instances of autotranslation to varying degrees.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:It's also a fact that the films are filled with instances of autotranslation to varying degrees.

Uhuh. Still doesn't mean a galactic empire far far away is going to use french units of measurement.

Doesn't mean they're going to speak English, either.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Doesn't mean they're going to speak English, either.

They're not. They're meant to be speaking a distinct language called 'Basic,' remember?

Exactly, which is non-diegetically autotranslated into English for the sake of the audience, which also happens with the "readable" examples of Basic rendered with the WEG-derived Aurebesh that appear in the films.

But the symbols *appropriated* for WEGs retarded 'aurebesh' nonsense don't translate to anything under their proposed system. Not in the films, anyway - the only things that DO translate 'properly' are things made USING that WEG system. Unless you're saying the gibberish the WEG system produces is a transliteration of SW written language, it's an utterly worthless invention.

To be honest, there's no indication at all that the symbology seen in the movies isn't pictographic in nature. This would make such 'alphabets' impossible, since language isn't always based on 'letters' making 'syllabels'.

Stark wrote:the only things that DO translate 'properly' are things made USING that WEG system.

Those are specifically what I was refering to.

Oh are there things like that in the prequels? You said 'in the films' and I just thought of the older movies :S

I guess it's apropriate to bring out this old link on the topic.

Stark wrote:Oh are there things like that in the prequels? You said 'in the films' and I just thought of the older movies :S

There's one instance in TPM, and the tractor beam text in ANH was finally changed for the DVD.

There's also all the signs and commercials on Coruscant in AOTC and ROTS.

Wait a second. If the tractor beam signage used to be crazy symbols, fine. If you're saying those crazy symbols translated to 'tractor beam control' IN ENGLISH using WEGs system, I call bullshit and demand proof. I'm not looking for instances of the symbols being used, but symbols being used as english transliteration.

I recall seeing a shot from TPM of the computer in the N1 starfighter Anakin flies at the end, and on one of the displays it has "WEG garbage" which letter for letter transliterates to "Anakin, turn this ship around and go back now!" or something to that effect. I'm not sure if it's a screenshot or some sort of production still, and I don't have a copy of the movie to search through, but I know that there is something like it.

I don't have a problem with English transliteration in text that appears in movie visuals.

As we know, spoken Basic sounds like modern English, and the characters' mouths are obviously enunciating the words; it's not a dub. Therefore, the same "filter" that ends up letting us see and hear people in the SW galaxy speaking Basic would also "filter" their text; however... uh... instead of seeing English text, we see those symbols.

Ok, fine, I just got to the last line and realized the hole in my logic. I guess it's still food for thought, so I'm hitting "Submit" anyway.

Stark wrote:Wait a second. If the tractor beam signage used to be crazy symbols, fine. If you're saying those crazy symbols translated to 'tractor beam control' IN ENGLISH using WEGs system, I call bullshit and demand proof. I'm not looking for instances of the symbols being used, but symbols being used as english transliteration.

Before (1977, 1997):


After (2004):


The WEG Aurebesh text translates exactly into the English text.

DesertFly wrote:I recall seeing a shot from TPM of the computer in the N1 starfighter Anakin flies at the end, and on one of the displays it has "WEG garbage" which letter for letter transliterates to "Anakin, turn this ship around and go back now!" or something to that effect. I'm not sure if it's a screenshot or some sort of production still, and I don't have a copy of the movie to search through, but I know that there is something like it.

Yeah, it's right there in the film, but you have to pause for the screen to be in frame long enough to actually read it, since it's a very quick insert shot.

Hey Spanky, I didn't know they changed the original English text in that way. Clearly my hatred of lame anachronisms will have to bow before onscreen evidence... FOR NOW!

*sigh* Why would they even do that? BAH!

Hmmm...

Can someone confirm this for me?

In the Special Edition videos of ESB and ROTJ that I had back in the day, in the scenes where Luke's in his X-wing talking to Artoo, R2 puts up text on English on the screen in the X-wing cockpit. But in the recent DVD edition, it's been edited into Aurebesh?

Stark wrote:*sigh* Why would they even do that? BAH!

Because the text being in English drove Lucas crazy. Lucas wanted the text to be in in the alphabet designed by (I think) Joe Johnston in 1976 which was used throughout the OT, to further emphasise that the film took place in another galaxy. It's the same reason Lucas insisted that characters like Chewbacca and Greedo didn't speak English, either.

But 20th Century Fox wouldn't let him, claiming that audience members wouldn't unterstand what Obi-Wan was doing if the text wasn't in English (nevermind that it was explained exactly what Obi-Wan was going to do earlier in the film).

For some reason changing it was overlooked for the Special Edition, but it was finally gotten around to for the DVD release.

Elheru Aran wrote:Hmmm...

Can someone confirm this for me?

In the Special Edition videos of ESB and ROTJ that I had back in the day, in the scenes where Luke's in his X-wing talking to Artoo, R2 puts up text on English on the screen in the X-wing cockpit. But in the recent DVD edition, it's been edited into Aurebesh?

First, a couple of soruce images:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs ... gtext1.jpg
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs ... gtext2.jpg

Artoo's X-wing text was never in English, and also hasn't been changed into Aurebesh for any revision. The text has always been in what appears to be the same "Galactic Basic" font/alphabet featured in RotJ, although even on DVD, it's much to small to determine anything further.

NecronLord wrote:

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Meters.

Incorrect. I have proved in the past that the canonical imperial forces do not use metic measurements of distance. The 'sixteen decimal blah' in ESB is not kilometers.

As I recall, that was a premise of your scenario, not the other way around. But whatever. I don't really feel like debating due to a recent personal tragedy.

Odd, I distinctly remember it being in quite readable English. Must've been seeing things...

Yes, you are.

For me the text was always "alien," and even getting past the fact that it was often too small to legible, it used to drive me nuts that I could never make out was Artoo was saying.

I know GL always wanted it to be 'alien', but using WEGs baseless system? It makes me a sad panda. I would have preferred even random meaningless stuff. :S

DesertFly wrote:I recall seeing a shot from TPM of the computer in the N1 starfighter Anakin flies at the end, and on one of the displays it has "WEG garbage" which letter for letter transliterates to "Anakin, turn this ship around and go back now!" or something to that effect. I'm not sure if it's a screenshot or some sort of production still, and I don't have a copy of the movie to search through, but I know that there is something like it.

Yes. This one isn't an urban myth. Stephen Crane, the creator of Aurebesh for WEG tells all here, with screencaps.

Elheru Aran wrote:Odd, I distinctly remember it being in quite readable English. Must've been seeing things...

I'm pretty sure I saw one of the cards from the CCG that had that screen with readable English text. Maybe you're thinking about that?