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I saw the E-E's shield flare from the Sci intial assult, they just were able to knock the core out with the burst of energy that gets through the shields in concentrated fire, like how they can disable weapons and engines on a still shielded ship, or lose systems and take damage while still holding shields, the Sci just got lucky in hitting the warp core and knocking it out of warp.

Valid point, Mr. Dice. It is argueable that the Elan of Troyilus issue with Warp Driven Starships vs Impulse Only Starships, vis a vis Sulu counting down visual ranges, may imply that combat is subluminal in these cases, with the 'Warp Drive' allowing greater agility than a real world Reaction-Mass Impulse Drive

anarchistbunny wrote:I saw the E-E's shield flare from the Sci intial assult, they just were able to knock the core out with the burst of energy that gets through the shields in concentrated fire, like how they can disable weapons and engines on a still shielded ship, or lose systems and take damage while still holding shields, the Sci just got lucky in hitting the warp core and knocking it out of warp.

yes, but before the film cut to an external view and before Picard ordered red alert the enterprise was rocked several times in rapid sucession. thats what, IMHO, knocked the E-E's junkyard wars grade propulsion system off line

That was never in dispute, photon torpedoes are the only weapons that can be used at warp- but ONLY against other ships travelling at warp- when fired at warp they travel at warp velocities, however they (cannot) accelerate to warp velocity when fired at sublight.

Can someone please explain to me why this is, I can't figure it out with my Trek knowledge.

To my understanding a Warp drive works by creating a 'bubble' around the craft that allows it to compress the empty space in front of it as it travels, this allows it to get from point A to point B in a shorter time.

Now with that bubble in mind, why should a torpedo work when travelling in that manner? I would expect it to work normally until it leaves the Warp bubble, then it returns to 'realspace' and the firing ship and target leave it far behind.

So in my analysis, for a torpedo to function normally when fired from Warp it must also have the capacity for a Warp bubble that must meet or exceed the speed capacity of the target ship (else it will be left behind).

If this is the case why can't you fire it while at sublight speeds and it not be capable of going into warp? The torpedo should either have the capacit for warp or it should not.

Steven Snyder wrote:

That was never in dispute, photon torpedoes are the only weapons that can be used at warp- but ONLY against other ships travelling at warp- when fired at warp they travel at warp velocities, however they (cannot) accelerate to warp velocity when fired at sublight.

Can someone please explain to me why this is, I can't figure it out with my Trek knowledge.

To my understanding a Warp drive works by creating a 'bubble' around the craft that allows it to compress the empty space in front of it as it travels, this allows it to get from point A to point B in a shorter time.

Now with that bubble in mind, why should a torpedo work when travelling in that manner? I would expect it to work normally until it leaves the Warp bubble, then it returns to 'realspace' and the firing ship and target leave it far behind.

So in my analysis, for a torpedo to function normally when fired from Warp it must also have the capacity for a Warp bubble that must meet or exceed the speed capacity of the target ship (else it will be left behind).

If this is the case why can't you fire it while at sublight speeds and it not be capable of going into warp? The torpedo should either have the capacit for warp or it should not.

Torpedoes have warp sustainers which allow them to ride off the field of the ship and continue at warp speed untill their normal fuel runs out.

I am sorry.

I am apparently not Trek material because I still don't see the distinction between the ability to 'sustain' a Warp Bubble vs create one. I have a very black/white view of the situation, either you can or you cannot create a warp field.

Steven Snyder wrote:I am sorry.

I am apparently not Trek material because I still don't see the distinction between the ability to 'sustain' a Warp Bubble vs create one. I have a very black/white view of the situation, either you can or you cannot create a warp field.

Its the very same principle that allowed them to perform saucer seperation. A warp sustainer doesn't let you accelerate into warp. So using torpedoes at warp is not a long range combat thing. Infact, over time the torpedoes would drop out of warp, except for the fact that the torpedoes run out of fuel. A Warp sustainer allows you to utilize the warp field that you started in and remain in warp for a while, but you will eventually slow down. That is why the saucer on the Galaxy class eventually coasts out of warp. You need warp engines to get into warp speed, accelerate, and stay in warp speed. Warp sustainers allow you to utilize warp speed for a short while.

Okay let's take this one thing at a time, so you can correct me on each item.

Its the very same principle that allowed them to perform saucer seperation. A warp sustainer doesn't let you accelerate into warp.

I didn't think there was a process of accelerating into warp. You simply create the field and travel in a certain direction, the field compresses the void in front of you. Warp isn't a magical speed like in Back to the Future, it is just a method of getting more out of your current propulsion system.

So using torpedoes at warp is not a long range combat thing. Infact, over time the torpedoes would drop out of warp, except for the fact that the torpedoes run out of fuel.

What does fuel have to do with the situation? It sounds like your saying that they would not drop out of warp if they ran out of fuel.

A Warp sustainer allows you to utilize the warp field that you started in and remain in warp for a while, but you will eventually slow down.

Sustain a warp bubble??? I thought the bubble was created by the active emissions of their oh-so-delicate warp coils. If they could sustain a warp field then why do they immediately fall out of warp when their engines go down?

That is why the saucer on the Galaxy class eventually coasts out of warp.

I thought that was because they left the warp bubble and then returned to 'realspace'.

You need warp engines to get into warp speed, accelerate, and stay in warp speed.

Again, I am apparently completely misinformed about Warp technology. I didn't think it had anything to do with speed or acceleration.

Warp sustainers allow you to utilize warp speed for a short while.

I don't know, it sounds more like a technology that creates a warp field for a limited amount of time. But hey, I am not an expert in the field.

All I am saying is what the show and TMs say. We know that the Saucer section of a Galaxy class can coast out of warp. The TNG TM says it has warp sustainers that allows it to do this. It also says that torpedoes have warp sustainers which allow for combat at warp. Once they run out of fuel, they run out of power, thus they drop out of warp.

Alyeska wrote:All I am saying is what the show and TMs say. We know that the Saucer section of a Galaxy class can coast out of warp. The TNG TM says it has warp sustainers that allows it to do this. It also says that torpedoes have warp sustainers which allow for combat at warp. Once they run out of fuel, they run out of power, thus they drop out of warp.

Interestingly enough, this means that contrary to popular belief, the Alcubierre warp drive principle is NOT how warp drive works, since maintenance of an Alcubierre effect is no less energetic than creation of an Alcubierre effect.