StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Joe wrote:Three applications at a time? Are you fucking kidding me? How can that be useful for anyone other than gibbering retards?

Indeed, why the fuck would they nerf it so horribly?

Though I imagine there would now be a race amongst the computer savvy to create programs that prevent things being recognised as an application and perhaps just as a process.

Damn, if I don't get the Ultimate theres no choice except to get the buisness version.

Dominus Atheos wrote:I'm pirating the Ultimate version. The only reason they're doing this is so they can charge $500+ for Windows Vista Ultimate. Starter has be deliberately crippled for it to only be able to run 3 programs at a time.

Yay piracy! Or, you could, you know, stick with XP.

darthdavid wrote:Vista looks more like a total sack of shit every day though. It'll cost way too much money to get full functionality, it'll lick copius ammounts of sphincter, and last time I read the specs it had greater system requirements than Half-Life 2. I'd like to know what it's fucking doing that needs more power than HL2...

1. Do you want the full functionality of the Ultimate editions or could you be satisfied with a lesser version?
2. "It'll lick copius ammounts of sphincter" [sic], please elucidate.
3. Apparently you can't read the proposed hardware requirements, else you'd know that it most certainly does not. The old GDI+ user interface is still alive and well - Aero accounts for the beefier system requirements and is not mandatory.

Joe wrote:Will it play DRM-less music?

Yes. Why wouldn't it?

Master of Ossus wrote:Why do they need a separate Windows edition for 3rd world countries? It doesn't even seem like it's going to be based on Vista, since it doesn't even have 64-bit support.

What the heck has that to do with anything? You might as well apply the same logic to XP Starter Edition, which of course is absurd (there are IA64 and AMD64 builds of XP)

Gandalf wrote:Though I imagine there would now be a race amongst the computer savvy to create programs that prevent things being recognised as an application and perhaps just as a process.

Probably not. As noted before, the Starter Editions are intended for the third world as a half-hearted method to fight rampant piracy of software.

I don't particularly like the way Vista is shaping up, either, but let's get real. There aren't 8 choices for the consumer, there are 3. Home, Premium, and Ultimate. Business and Enterprise are for businesses, the "N" models are for Europe, and Starter is for 3rd worlders.

One would need a full feature list to see what Ultimate has to offer over Premium, but it's looking like a bunch of programs that would have freeware equivalents, anyway.

Uraniun235 wrote:

Frankly, the differences between some of these versions are ridiculous. The "Home Premium" adds DVD authoring and lets you actually USE some things you may already have (Media Center Extender and Tablet support). The Business Edition adds stuff that should be in the other versions already- non-Microsoft networking, remote desktop (I can download VNC free), web server (I can download Apache free, it's built in to Linux and Mac OS X), and joining domains. The Enterprise edition adds a multi-language interface! (granted, it also has Virtual PC which IS useful for many).

Okay, really though, how many people that buy a Microsoft workstation-flavor OS are going to be running a web server off of it? How many people are then going to choose to run IIS off it? (Shit, I chose Apache mostly because I didn't want to wade through a bunch of LOL IIS BLOWS NEWB bullshit if I ever had to go asking for help on the internet!)

Not a lot, but it's still silly that they're touting it as a major feature of a higher edition when basicly every operating system on the planet touts Apache, a widely-considered-superior web server, BUILT IN FREE, and it's freely downloadable on the internet.

It would be like if they released Windows 98 and then a second version that had nothing but bug fixes and internet connection sharing- oh wait. Never mind.

I don't particularly like the way Vista is shaping up, either, but let's get real. There aren't 8 choices for the consumer, there are 3. Home, Premium, and Ultimate. Business and Enterprise are for businesses, the "N" models are for Europe, and Starter is for 3rd worlders.

Actually, Business is basicly Windows XP Pro and is needed for non-Microsoft networking and joining of domains, so it may be useful for powerusers in their homes too.

Enterprise adds Virtual PC (which some power users might find useful), a multi-language user interface (not 100% sure how this works, but multilingual households might find it useful), and drive encryption (good security), so again, some power users might like it, but it's probably going to be bought just by businesses.


EDIT:

Check this out!
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/software ... 156415.php


Not a photoshop.

Praxis wrote:Actually, Business is basicly Windows XP Pro and is needed for non-Microsoft networking and joining of domains, so it may be useful for powerusers in their homes too.

Vista has Fast User switching and Domains working at the same time now. Also it is suposed to have distributed domains between "workgroup" computers and with roaming profiles setup, aka Domain lite.

Enterprise adds Virtual PC (which some power users might find useful), a multi-language user interface (not 100% sure how this works, but multilingual households might find it useful), and drive encryption (good security), so again, some power users might like it, but it's probably going to be bought just by businesses.

I bet the Collectors edition, oops I mean the Ultimate edition will have most if not all those features.

Check this out!
http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/software ... 156415.php

ROFL. I would not be suprised at all.

Vista is a beta, and Microsoft products are buggy after release never mind before

Admiral Valdemar wrote:

Uraniun235 wrote:Still too inconvenient for my lazy ass, I'm afraid. Given that I just now switched from 2000 to XP, I figure I'll be good for at least a couple of years.

Bullshit. That's what I thought a year ago before I knew a girl who was for all intents and purposes like Chloe out of 24 and convinced me to get Linux. I now run SUSE 10.0 and there has been no problems here, and I'm no computing genius.

Really, you should do well to learn about other systems. Complaining about MS then just sticking to their second rate products out of laziness is the height of... laziness.

WinXP fulfills all my needs perfectly. There's nothing I want to do that it cannot do. There's nothing it does that I'm particularly dissatisfied with. Why should I change now?

I might make the switch if it comes down to a choice between Vista or Linux, but even then, you must keep in mind that the biggest reason I have my computer is so I can play games on it. And given that there are recent games that even the vaunted Cedega doesn't quite run properly, it looks as if Linux would be less suited to my uses.

I wonder if Xen will eventually support DirectX...

I can't see myself upgrading to Vista in a hurry. Just as Uraniun235, I'm quite happy with Win XP (a product that never was finished in the first place). I don't buy many new programs etc. so I don't see a need to upgrade to Vista. And what about Windows "Vienna", is that still set to be released after Vista?

This proves it. Microsoft have gone fucking batshit. They're going to lose a lot of potential customers over this, I mean, hell, when the time comes to upgrade, if Linux has managed to pull itself together, and I mean fully together and gotten a lot of coding support, etc, then I'll switch to it, otherwise, I'll be forced to do something... Rash. Like chain Bill Gates to my desk and whip him with an extension cord until he bleeds to death.

loomer wrote:This proves it. Microsoft have gone fucking batshit. They're going to lose a lot of potential customers over this, I mean, hell, when the time comes to upgrade, if Linux has managed to pull itself together, and I mean fully together and gotten a lot of coding support, etc, then I'll switch to it, otherwise, I'll be forced to do something... Rash. Like chain Bill Gates to my desk and whip him with an extension cord until he bleeds to death.

Praytell how are they going to be losing many customers over this?

phongn wrote:Praytell how are they going to be losing many customers over this?

I agree. Usually releasing multiple versions of software packages generates more customers; not less.

There's no good reason for anyone to want any newer Windows version over an older one nowadays, which is why Microsoft plans to deliberately cut off tech support from older versions in order to force people to buy expensive newer versions. They've reached the point of forcing the consumer to buy their product rather than enticing him to do so.

I don't really see it that way. Are Vista's new features enough to entice you to upgrade? Well, depends. I agree that there isn't a pressing need in stability and/or functionality which was present in many of the previous upgrade cycles. It honestly is more of an background upgrade.

As far as cutting off support, XP Pro is good for support until 2011 (10 years after the original release!) and possibly longer. While Home officialy isn't supported that long, its likely that Microsoft will quietly keep giving extensions since the difference between the versions is minor. That is much more support then other consumer grade OSes get (ie OSX and Linux). XP will also not implode the day after the support period ends. The only real possible must-upgrade factor is new hardware after a while (we are talking about 2010+ here, in all likelyhood), which is quite understandable.

Also, there is the fact that most people get a new OS with their new computer rather then upgrading. After Vista is released, XP will no longer be available to OEMs, so its unlikely many (nontech who don't know of the alternatives) people will be left with an unsupported system.

Honestly, I don't see why people are claiming "OMG I will never get Vista! I'd rather go to linux!". I can understand not spending money to upgrade (which you won't be forced to do anytime soon looking at the support schedule), but not getting it with a new computer (it is likely to be priced pretty much the same as XP)? It will have new tech built in, and it will get more tech (like WFS) later on which will be much better integrated then on XP. Is it the whole HDCP fiasco? What?

What was Microsoft supposed to do anyway? Upgrade XP piecemeal with various tech (WPF, WFS, new UI, etc) until eternity? Even with phasing out support for older service packs, it would be a disaster for shrinkwrapped software developers in terms of testing and tech support. Not to mention that certain sound policies (like not changing the UI within a product as much as possible to assist buisness) would really make it unfeasible in the long term.

P.S. Can we keep a little sanity in these threads please? Stuff like "Will it play DRMless music?" or "It will have hardware requirements on the level of HL2" is, quite frankly, absurd if you have even a basic understanding of the history of Windows and the design philosophies behind it. Hello, this is the company which focused on security over backwards compatibility only relativly recently and only then because it was basicly forced to. Also, this is an OS that will run on much more buisness computers then gamer computers. Think before you post such absurdities.

EDIT:
Windows Life-Cycle Policy
Microsoft Support Lifecycle Policy FAQ

Darth Wong wrote:There's no good reason for anyone to want any newer Windows version over an older one nowadays, which is why Microsoft plans to deliberately cut off tech support from older versions in order to force people to buy expensive newer versions. They've reached the point of forcing the consumer to buy their product rather than enticing him to do so.

As someone who fiddles around with programming and other stuff, I have a very keen interest in some of the new stuff in Vista.

Also helps I plan to get the biggest & best version for free via MSDNAA

ggs wrote:As someone who fiddles around with programming and other stuff, I have a very keen interest in some of the new stuff in Vista.

Apparently WinFX supports the advanced OpenType features at an OS-level as well as sundry other improvements. I doubt they'll be heavily used, but it is nifty.

What do they break in the cheaper versions to prevent 'non-windows' networking? Do they simply not give the user the protocols, or something else? It seems an absurd distinction to make. I'm no rocket scientist, but my home network involves all three major OSs.

Non-windows is likely alternative enterprise level stuff like Novell etc. I doubt they will make it impossible for linux and, especialy, OSX to interact with Windows machines.

Stark wrote:What do they break in the cheaper versions to prevent 'non-windows' networking? Do they simply not give the user the protocols, or something else? It seems an absurd distinction to make. I'm no rocket scientist, but my home network involves all three major OSs.

Likely they don't include support for anything but SMB over TCP/IP. I doubt there's anything stopping someone from adding Novell or NFS support.

Linux and OS X will likely continue to use Samba to connect in.

phongn wrote:Apparently WinFX supports the advanced OpenType features at an OS-level as well as sundry other improvements. I doubt they'll be heavily used, but it is nifty.

I dont care about that. The biggest end-user feature I care about is Quality of Service in the filesystem!

There are some other programming stuff I'm interested in, but I havent had much todo with WinFX so far.

Count Dooku wrote:Do any of you know if you'll be able to get this for free via your college (if you attend one), like you can with XP?

Almost certainly.

Naturally. Every drug dealer knows that you have to hook the kids early.

Not every college gets a free handjob from Microsoft. (bitterly mumbles about OSU not having free MS software when he went there.)

Uraniun235 wrote:Not every college gets a free handjob from Microsoft. (bitterly mumbles about OSU not having free MS software when he went there.)

Virtually no college is actually given Microsoft software. They just buy site-licenses for it. And Microsoft is by no means alone in cutting educational deals to schools. Apple computer often literally gave computers to schools, and still maintains massive educational discounts.