StarDestroyer.Net BBS

brianeyci wrote:For what? Multiplication of really big numbers? How many significant digits does your teacher go up to, more than eight? I doubt it. Math isn't about a calculator. Actually I haven't used a calculator in a test or an exam since high school--you're not allowed any aids in my university math classes. Engineers are obviously different.

Brian

Random little features, like displaying numbers in an
A
_
B
format.

You mean like 3/6 = 1/2? Or adding 40/59 + 90/26? That's exactly why there shouldn't be calculators allowed, it makes you lazy. You'd be a lot faster and able to do that in your head (or at least with a piece of paper) if you practised through high school and middle school without the calculator finding common denominators for you, trust me you don't need it it gives a false sense of security.

If you have 138992397489/1823120930380909 that's as much math as washing dishes is to cooking, it's part of it but the teacher shouldn't be making you do those kind of things.

<edit>My first year algebra class in university was really funny... during matrix arithmetic my professor was like "the only numbers in a matrix you'll encounter are 0, 1 and 2" lol</edit>

Brian

brianeyci wrote:You mean like 3/6 = 1/2? Or adding 40/59 + 90/26? That's exactly why there shouldn't be calculators allowed, it makes you lazy. You'd be a lot faster and able to do that in your head (or at least with a piece of paper) if you practised through high school and middle school without the calculator finding common denominators for you, trust me you don't need it it gives a false sense of security.

No, like having 3/6 displayed like that instead of 0.5, its a little difference but I'm glad my calculator has it. I don't need help for doing arithmetic, I need help putting it in a displayable format.

You don't need the help trust me. You can do without it if you wanted to .

Brian

brianeyci wrote:You don't need the help trust me. You can do without it if you wanted to .

Brian

Yes, I can, but its a nice feature.

I can do most of the formulas we need in our math classes in my head, does it mean I can't enjoy a calculator that does it for me? I'm not intresting in resolving quadratic formulas again and again.

Where I come from you need to show all your work, yes even doing the quadratic formula over and over. And I can do it in two steps on paper now, write out the formula with all the variables substituted and simplify and do the root underneath (unless it's a hideously large root) . So you can do it.

Brian

brianeyci wrote:Where I come from you need to show all your work, yes even doing the quadratic formula over and over. And I can do it in two steps on paper now, write out the formula with all the variables substituted and simplify and do the root underneath (unless it's a hideously large root) . So you can do it.

Brian

Thats what I do, dosn't change the fact it's rather nice to have a calculator that can do it. Now graphers, well, I'm not in a stage where they'd be usful.

There are some scientific calculators that don't do everything that I need them too. The cheap scientific that I bought for one of my classes that I couldn't use my TI in doesn't display in scientific notation or engineering notation all the time. For example, if a result to a problem was 91.23nm, my scientific would display that as 0.000000091, losing me sig figs and costing me time. My TI would display that as 91.23E-9, or if I didn't have engineering notation on, 9.123E-8. I have to get into either pico or mega before I get scientific notation on my scientific calculator, which is very annoying if I can't use my TI.

Oh, yeah. I can't believe I forgot unit conversions! That is one of the greatest features of the TI-89. Especially since you can program your own units with whatever properties you want (biological measurements are often far outside the range the original units could handle). It is a great way to check your work, too.

TheBlackCat wrote:Oh, yeah. I can't believe I forgot unit conversions! That is one of the greatest features of the TI-89. Especially since you can program your own units with whatever properties you want (biological measurements are often far outside the range the original units could handle). It is a great way to check your work, too.

The 86 also has that feature. The thing about the 86 is that there is no way to connect it to a PC.

MariusRoi wrote:The thing about the 86 is that there is no way to connect it to a PC.

Sure there is. The PC link cable (they have both USB and serial versions) and the TI Connect software work with every TI graphing calculator (besides possibly the ones with a built-in USB cable).

For example, if a result to a problem was 91.23nm, my scientific would display that as 0.000000091, losing me sig figs and costing me time.

Bah I can do calculations with scientific notation without a scientific calculator. Addition of scientific notation and the exponents stay the same. Division, subtract the exponents. Multiplication, add the exponents. If it's 91.23e-9 (which is 9.123e-8 btw) I only work with the 91.23 and do the exponents manually. The exponents only go as far as +/-9 so no big deal.

Wusses .

A calculator's only function should be addition, multiplication, subtraction and division . And even then unless you're using big numbers no need for a calculator. I know I'm not getting my kid a calculator (when I get a kid that is ).

Brian

brianeyci wrote:When I have a kid I'm not getting him a graphing calculator for middle or high school. After that it's his business.

We were required to have scientific calculators for my advanced algebra and physics courses. I don't recall enough about the algebra course to say whether they were needed, but physics would've been almost impossible. Both optics and nuclear physics tend to be a bit difficult with their equations.

Kid is high school or middle school. By the time he's in university he'll be cut loose and free. Did you study nuclear physics or optics (beyond the basics) in high school? I think not unless you were in an AP course.

The kid will have a damn good reason for a calculator--basically if I can can do it in my head he doesn't get one.

<edit>Or quickly on paper </edit>

Brian

Couple points there Brian. First, I think you missed the point with my previous post. If I calculate a value for, say, the capacitance of a transmission line (which invloves several operations) and get an answer in the low nano range (which is not uncommon), I don't want to have to figure out what that value is because my scientific won't give it to me in SN. I either have to lose sig figs or spend an extra step multiplying it out so that I can get the sig figs. If I do it on my TI, not only is entering it faster, but it'll display it in the format that I want it to.

Secondly, I needed my TI for all of my high school math courses, and some of my science courses as well. I suspect your kid will need one when he/she gets to that level of schooling.

brianeyci wrote:Kid is high school or middle school. By the time he's in university he'll be cut loose and free. Did you study nuclear physics or optics (beyond the basics) in high school? I think not unless you were in an AP course.

Which I was (and should have mentioned). AP Physics B, which was quite fun, even if I did only get a 4 on the exam. Too much on electricity, which was my weak area. [/hijack]

But anyway, if you have a kid who's above average intelligence, they're likely to need a graphing/scientific calculator before graduating high school. It was required my sophomore year, and I was no great shakes.

I used to use a ti-84 but now (gladly) I have been released from doing year 12 maths and rarely use it for school anymore. If I need to do quick calculations I just the windows calc.

TheBlackCat wrote:

MariusRoi wrote:The thing about the 86 is that there is no way to connect it to a PC.

Sure there is. The PC link cable (they have both USB and serial versions) and the TI Connect software work with every TI graphing calculator (besides possibly the ones with a built-in USB cable).

The USB version doesn't do PC to 86 conections, and I've yet to find a serial version (not that it would be any good as my laptop doesn't have a serial port).

Make your own. There's instructions on the net, as well as software.

MariusRoi wrote:The USB version doesn't do PC to 86 conections, and I've yet to find a serial version (not that it would be any good as my laptop doesn't have a serial port).

TI Connectivity Cables

The TI Connectivity Cable USB for Windows®/Mac® and TI Connect software are compatible with the TI-73 Explorer™, TI-83, TI-83 Plus, TI-83 Plus Silver Edition, TI-84 Plus, TI-84 Plus Silver Edition, TI-86, TI-89, TI-89 Titanium, TI-92, TI-92 Plus, and Voyage™ 200.

Emphasis added.

brianeyci wrote:The kid will have a damn good reason for a calculator--basically if I can can do it in my head he doesn't get one.

because everyone has the same natural aptitude for math that you do

We get lent graphic calculators if we need them, but otherwise I don't need anything too complicated so I've always used the Albert range, I had an Albert2, now I've got a 4, an I had a 3 for a bit as well. They aren't too complicated in appearance but have the more complex things If you need them, which I usually don't.

I have a TI-83+.

We were required to have graphing and scientific calculators in the physics, math, chemistry and astronomy courses. We were also taught when to use them and when not to, and the maths tests always had parts where we were not allowed to use calculators at all. But if we hadn't have had them during the physics courses, well let's just say that they would have been nowhere near as fun as they were, and we would have spent more time crunching numbers than learning anything about what we where calculating (and even as it were, some people spent more time trying to remember the equations than the underlying reasoning).

And I use the calculator occasionaly today; its graphing functions are great when balancing certain aspects of certain games

TI-89 when I can get away with it, but for tests and the sorts I'm usually stuck using the TI-83+. I used to have a really good 3D graphing calculator program for my Palm M515 but I lost it.

I use a TI-83+ sporadically; most of the math I do isn't arithmetic-intensive (at least not now), so I can generally work what arithmetic I do need in the margins. Recently, for the really fast, in-my-head versus debate stuff, I've been using Google Calculator. It's a neat little thing that also does unit conversions and accepts scientific notation, so it's quite useful.